Going the borax route.........thanks.

since I added borates, I've noticed some "gunk" all in the bottom middle (lengthwise) of the pool. I call it gunk because that's what it looks like, but it brushes away easily and disappears. it's reappeared a couple times now. my pressure also went up about 5 psi. just wondering if anyone else has had this happen. never seen it in the pool before and cleaned it just before borate (mule team) addition.

Very possibly dead algae.

Wondering if it is worth it, for me, to borate my pool?

I have an opaque safety cover, like Richard, so chlorine usage is low, and algae is not an issue as long as I have any chlorine in the pool.

But, I would add borates if it improve the "ergonomics" of my pool, if it makes the water look and feel better, and if it causes less eye irritation.

Since going to the BBB method, my water already looks great.

I don't want to add salt, worried about the corrisive properties of salt.

I have figured it would cost me $115, with shipping to get the 50 lbs I need of boric acid.

Randy

I am very pleased, and I am definitely a "As few additives as possible please" kind of person. My water has never looked better, and even the bugs are fewer. I keep wondering where the bugs have gone, until I walk down the lane and realize, oh there they are. I do not like salt- I know it is not supposed to be detectable, but I can detect it. I can taste a slight bitter tang with the borates, but that is partly due to overdosing on my part. It is so much easier to keep my water clean, and I live in an area where stuff is constantly flying into the water, so is has been worth every penny to me.

So far, my use of Borates is working out very well. The water seems even clearer, possibly due to the glass-like surface shimmer from the lower surface tension. My chlorine usage has seemed to have dropped slightly (from around 1.0 ppm to 0.8 ppm FC per day), possibly due to the algistatic properties helping to prevent algae growth (though the chlorine level seemed to mostly take care of that).

I can't really tell any difference on the eyes underwater. I seemed to notice more of a difference when the salt level was higher. 50 ppm Borates is around 286 ppm TDS so not that significant in term of lowering the pressure on the eyes in water.

The extra pH buffering is also nice, though my pool's pH is relatively stable to begin with. Just keep in mind that it does take more acid to lower the pH if the time comes when you need to do that.

I am most hopeful that my pool is more "forgiving" if the chlorine level ever gets too low. With the high phosphates (2000-3000 ppb) in my pool it really needs some chlorine in it at all times. Even a few days without chlorine have led to problems when I didn't have borates (as I described in this thread). I'll plan to do an experiment near the end of the season to see if the borates help keep the pool in good shape if the chlorine gets too low or to zero.

Richard

This is new, exciting information to me. I look forward to trying this after my stain problems are addressed.
Just curious, are there any commercial pools that do this as a way of making their water more inviting?

I have heard people talk about how some of the water park pools have very comfortable water.

Thanks for the replys

I decided to take a chance, and ordered 50 lbs of boric acid.

Should have it next week.

Randy

I added borates to my pool last year, it was algae free all year long and in the fall I added a quart of polyquat algae preventer, shocked it and covered it. In spring when the thaw came I dumped 2 gallons of bleach under the cover, then every few weeks did the same till I opened it two weeks ago. It was a little cloudy but no algae, and in 1 night the cloudy went away and the water was crystal clear. I attribute the easy opening to a few things but I bet the borates helped alot to keep it algae free. I do drain a lot of water for the winter and this spring the borates were at 30ppm so I just added the reccommended amount and it is right back to 50 ppm and clear as can be.

I never, not once, last year, added algae control to my pool (until fall to close it) and never had to shock it either, not even once all year long! I think it was a combo of borates and good water chemistry with help from everyone here that made it that way.

Thanks

I guess the one benefit you might have is that if you had been doing the BBB method for a couple of years and needing to add borax regularly, it won't be quite as big and expensive of a job to get the level up to 50PPM, right?

If you are doing BBB and using bleach chances are you will need to add little to no borax at all since pH is more likely to rise than drop. If you are using trichlor then you might need to add borax.

Very possibly some commercial facilities might be using Optimizer, Supreme, or one of the other commerical borate products.

I don't think it's so much that the water is comfortable but rather that they keep their pools properly balanced with automation systems and SWGS while a lot of smaller facilities rely on manual methods that are only as good as the pool operator!

I'm sorry, but I cannot find the posts discussing test kits. Could someone please explain the pros/cons of the different test kits for borates? I seem to recall a recommendation not to use the one from Leslie's (and another brand) but I do not recall why. I also seem to remember the other brand ("LaMotte"?) was mostly available via mail order.

Is there a significant difference in test kits that I should mail order one rather than pick it up locally?

Look at the color comparator on the bottle of strips. If it is shades of tan stay away (These are the Hach/Aquachek strips or a private label of them) . If it is shades of pink it's the good one (LaMotte or a private label).
The reason we recommend the LaMotte is because they are MUCH easier to read. the colors on the Hach/Aquachek strips are really impossible to tell apart and the strips go bad quickly and just read about 50 ppm no matter what.

The only actual kit (drop based) for borates is from Proteam. It's excellenct but pricey and a bit tricky to do right (It is a multistep procedure). If you don't understand why you are adding reagent to just turn the color at one point it's easy to overshoot!

To the best of my knowledge Leslies does not sell a borate test strip but since all the other strips they carry are Aquachek it would probably be that one and it's not the one we recommend.

Remember, our recommendations are not based on trying to sell you a certain product but are based on what we have found out works well for the money involved! I wish the aquachek strips were worthwhile since they are readily available in a lot of places but, unfortunately, they are a waste of money.

Thanks for the quick response. Actually, I left the 2 DGSs in the car with DH and popped in quick to Leslie's as I happened to see the store as we passed it yesterday. As I was trying to hurry and didn't need anything else I just asked for the test strips rather than look around for them. I paid, and left. I went to look at the brand after posting this and it is not even a borate test - it is a bromide test!

So much for saving time. Luckily DGS has one swim lesson left so I'll pass this store next week on the way back, and return the strips. Makes for a hassle, though - I should know better by now to rely on them for much of any advice!

We're fairly new to the area and with the BBB method I don't frequent pool stores much so I don't know what's around here (pool stores). I think I'll just bite the bullet, order them online and wait a few more days.

Thanks again for the advice!

Hi,

I just added the borax & the acid, I'm going out of town for a week & thought it would be a good idea.

A surprise benefit, when I poured the diluted acid around the edge of the pool, 90% of the stains went away.

My question is, if I raise the pool to shock level before I leave, will the stains return?

thanks

Bob

The stains might return when you shock, especially if they were metal stains and you have not been using enough sequestrant.

Now up to 50 ppm and finally vacuumed. Delightful.
I have one problem with the LaMotte strips though. Mine came with the start color on the dry pad at 15ppm, not the 0 ppm color. So, it is reading more like 80ppm borates when I test, but by calculation, I am pretty sure that I have 50ppm. Not sure if they were exposed to some humidity that made the strips start out a level higher or what, but the whole bottle is uniformly that way. Is my method of reading reasonable -assume that the test is coming out one level high since it is starting one level high?

Ok here is my question; testing for borates, is this the same test for CYA? if not what do i need to test for borates? Thank you.

No, the borate test is different than the CYA test. I recommendf LaMotte borate test strips.