Extending life of Gunite pool

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mvoltin

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Aug 1, 2016
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atlanta, GA
My gunite pool (diamondbrite) is about 4 years old and it continues to slowly "shed" (I have been finding small pieces of diamondbrite in filter but the "shedding" has been consistent over the years and I have done good job maintaining pool chemistry). There is still healthy looking amount of diamondbrite but I assume end of life will be coming up in a few years.

I had to empty my pool for another reason (leak in pipe that was found and taken care of) and wanted this opportunity to "extend" the life of the pool before filling it back up. I am thinking of a novel approach and wanted to get input from the community:

The pool is about 10k gallons, fully covered with no direct sun. I was thinking of putting a thin layer of epoxy (slightly thickened with silica, not epoxy paint). The diamondbrite would still be visible but it would have thin "glass" of epoxy over it giving it smoother feeling and more protection from "shedding". (just to clarify, I am not talking about Epoxy paint, but regular clear Epoxy)

I know this is not a standard practice but it may add years to the pool's life. Am I missing or overlooking something major with this approach?
 
mvoltin said:
My gunite pool (diamondbrite) is about 4 years old and it continues to slowly "shed" (I have been finding small pieces of diamondbrite in filter but the "shedding" has been consistent over the years and I have done good job maintaining pool chemistry). There is still healthy looking amount of diamondbrite but I assume end of life will be coming up in a few years.
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That could be delamination and is an indication of poor application.

mvoltin said:
I had to empty my pool for another reason (leak in pipe that was found and taken care of) and wanted this opportunity to "extend" the life of the pool before filling it back up. I am thinking of a novel approach and wanted to get input from the community:

The pool is about 10k gallons, fully covered with no direct sun. I was thinking of putting a thin layer of epoxy (slightly thickened with silica, not epoxy paint). The diamondbrite would still be visible but it would have thin "glass" of epoxy over it giving it smoother feeling and more protection from "shedding". (just to clarify, I am not talking about Epoxy paint, but regular clear Epoxy)

I know this is not a standard practice but it may add years to the pool's life. Am I missing or overlooking something major with this approach?
Click to expand...
If anything that might shorten the life of the pool.

@onBalance might have some additional ideas.
 
mvoltin said:
My gunite pool (diamondbrite) is about 4 years old and it continues to slowly "shed" (I have been finding small pieces of diamondbrite in filter but the "shedding" has been consistent over the years and I have done good job maintaining pool chemistry). There is still healthy looking amount of diamondbrite but I assume end of life will be coming up in a few years.

I had to empty my pool for another reason (leak in pipe that was found and taken care of) and wanted this opportunity to "extend" the life of the pool before filling it back up. I am thinking of a novel approach and wanted to get input from the community:

The pool is about 10k gallons, fully covered with no direct sun. I was thinking of putting a thin layer of epoxy (slightly thickened with silica, not epoxy paint). The diamondbrite would still be visible but it would have thin "glass" of epoxy over it giving it smoother feeling and more protection from "shedding". (just to clarify, I am not talking about Epoxy paint, but regular clear Epoxy)

I know this is not a standard practice but it may add years to the pool's life. Am I missing or overlooking something major with this approach?
Click to expand...
The diamondbrite should be a 15-20 year life. If you turn on CSI tracking in pool math it may help determine why the plaster is shedding.
 
If the diamond brite finish is "shedding, then the epoxy may just come off with the diamond brite finish.
I would like to see some photos of where the plaster surface is shedding and the diamond brite residue itself.
Have you tried sanding the plaster surface with 100 grit sandpaper and observe the result?
 
mas985 said:
That could be delamination and is an indication of poor application.


If anything that might shorten the life of the pool.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify - by "shedding" I mean i find pieces (fine pieces, like grit, nothing larger) in the filter and it's very little amount every time I clean the filter. I thought some minimal loss of surface particles was normal? If not, then what causes "end of life" for Gunite? (If no particles should be coming off slowly then why it has finite life?) - just trying to understand the mechanism. thanks

Also, about the "If anything that might shorten the life of the pool", can you explain the rationale (physical/chemical/mechanical explanation) for me to understand? thanks.
 
onBalance said:
If the diamond brite finish is "shedding, then the epoxy may just come off with the diamond brite finish.
I would like to see some photos of where the plaster surface is shedding and the diamond brite residue itself.
Have you tried sanding the plaster surface with 100 grit sandpaper and observe the result?
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I may have done a poor job of describing it. It's not shedding as far as anything to see in the pool but I find small particles (size of grit) in the filter whenever I clean it. I thought this was normal. The pool surface looks fine but I assume it's slowly losing thickness due to the slow loss of tiny particles. But, again, the diamondbrite looks fine (virtually same as new) some 4-5 years later.

Having said that, going back to the epoxy: my rationale was that if I put layer of clear epoxy, it would create a separation of water with diamondbrite. Epoxy would be like a giant single "container" pushed by water against the diamondbrite walls. So, I just cannot imagine how epoxy would come off when it's a single piece of "container". I thought I would get the best of both worlds: diamondbrite look, and water only interfacing with epoxy wall (better chemistry control, etc.).

I know this is not typical approach but wanted to hear some explanation if it's a bad idea. I know nobody probably has done it but at least rationalization of why it's a bad idea would help. again, there is no direct sun on the pool.

Thanks.
 
Painting over plaster surfaces with various types of paints, including epoxy is common. And the having bonding problems is also common. Flaking of sealants, paints, epoxy occurs often.
There is a new product called "Micro Glass" that sounds like what you are considering using.

The shedding of quartz aggregate is not common, and unfortunately, without seeing your pool I can't make a judgement on your quartz plaster situation.
 
What specific "epoxy" product are you thinking of using?

Is it...

MicroGlass

Anyone have any experience with MicroGlass? Pool Plaster Hardener | Pool Plaster preservation | MicroGlass LLC I'm redoing the plaster, tile & coping of my pool in a few months and my pool company just sent a message that they are now offering MicroGlass to help extend the life of plaster...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
onBalance said:
Painting over plaster surfaces with various types of paints, including epoxy is common. And the having bonding problems is also common. Flaking of sealants, paints, epoxy occurs often.
There is a new product called "Micro Glass" that sounds like what you are considering using.

The shedding of quartz aggregate is not common, and unfortunately, without seeing your pool I can't make a judgement on your quartz plaster situation.
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Thank you.

Just want to understand the lifecycle of the Gunite or Diamondbrite when they say it last 15-20 years. I assumed it slowly came off (like in mine) one marcel at at time until it became extremely thin. But you are saying this is not common. Then, what is the process (or effect) where Gunite needs to be redone? What happens after 15-20 years if it doesn't slowly come off one tiny piece at a time? Thanks

P.S. I was just thinking a regular epoxy (tabletop or one used for fiberglass) since it's flexible. It would make effectively a pool lining (single piece) that would be pushed against the diamondbrite by the water's weight. So, adhesion was not an issue in my mind. I know this is novel and this is why wanted to get your reaction. Hadn't heard about the Micro-glass but will explore now. thank you.
 
mvoltin said:
Thank you.

Just want to understand the lifecycle of the Gunite or Diamondbrite when they say it last 15-20 years.
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Gunite lasts pretty much forever. That is the concrete base that plaster is put on. I think you may be referring to plaster skin coat. My plaster coating is over 18 years old and is in pretty good condition. I just did an AA treatment to remove iron stains and it makes the surface look like new.
 
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mvoltin said:
Thank you.

Just want to understand the lifecycle of the Gunite or Diamondbrite when they say it last 15-20 years. I assumed it slowly came off (like in mine) one marcel at at time until it became extremely thin. But you are saying this is not common. Then, what is the process (or effect) where Gunite needs to be redone? What happens after 15-20 years if it doesn't slowly come off one tiny piece at a time? Thanks

P.S. I was just thinking a regular epoxy (tabletop or one used for fiberglass) since it's flexible. It would make effectively a pool lining (single piece) that would be pushed against the diamondbrite by the water's weight. So, adhesion was not an issue in my mind. I know this is novel and this is why wanted to get your reaction. Hadn't heard about the Micro-glass but will explore now. thank you.
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I suspect most of the time, small plaster chips form and allow water underneath it, which causes delamination in small chunks that grow in size over time. Thats how mine failed.

My new diamondbrite had some dust for a few days after it was finished but nothing additional has come off in the 6+ months its been complete.

The paints and epoxies used for pools typically fail after a year or two so I’d imagine other products not designed to be used like that would fail even faster. Ive heard of the microglass product but no experience.
 
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mvoltin said:
Then, what is the process (or effect) where Gunite needs to be redone?
Click to expand...

I think you are asking about redoing plaster. Gunite is the concrete shell the plaster is applied to.

mvoltin said:
What happens after 15-20 years if it doesn't slowly come off one tiny piece at a time? Thanks
Click to expand...

In my case after 17 years I had some rusting rebar stains appearing that required cutting out plaster and gunite to get to the rebar so it was replaster time.

In some cases it is delamination and chunks of plaster coming off.

Bad water chemistry, low CSI, and lack of calcium can etch and wear the plaster and cause loss of thickness to where gunite is exposed.

Some folks get staining on their plaster for various reasons to where it looks so ugly they decide to replaster it.

The gunite and plaster can crack and cause leaks requiring plaster removal for repair.

Many reasons a pool needs new plaster.

mvoltin said:
P.S. I was just thinking a regular epoxy (tabletop or one used for fiberglass) since it's flexible. It would make effectively a pool lining (single piece) that would be pushed against the diamondbrite by the water's weight. So, adhesion was not an issue in my mind. I know this is novel and this is why wanted to get your reaction. Hadn't heard about the Micro-glass but will explore now. thank you.
Click to expand...

I think your non-conventional idea will cause more trouble then it will help extend the life of your plaster. Once you put epoxy on it will be difficult to do any spot plaster repairs as plaster will not adhere to epoxy.

If you have your first layer of plaster then a new layer can be put on top of it. If you put epoxy on it you will need a full and careful chipout, which will cost more, to replaster your pool. And companies may not guarantee a replaster with the possibility that the epoxy will cause delamination.
 
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Under normal conditions, a plaster finish does not slowly wear away to eventually expose the underlying gunite or substrate. One would have to purposely maintain the pool water in a very aggressive condition for more than 20 years to completely dissolve the half-inch plaster coat and expose the gunite.

Generally, after twenty years, the plaster surface may be rough enough and stained enough for pool owners to decide to replaster. Many plaster pools go more than 30 years before being re-plastered to improve the appearance.

If your quartz plaster surface is wearing (shedding) away, it is possible that the plastering contractor did a poor job. Make sure that the tiny particles you see are actually diamondbrite quartz aggregates. Perhaps you are just seeing sand and various debris that is falling into your pool.
 
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onBalance said:
Under normal conditions, a plaster finish does not slowly wear away to eventually expose the underlying gunite or substrate. One would have to purposely maintain the pool water in a very aggressive condition for more than 20 years to completely dissolve the half-inch plaster coat and expose the gunite.

Generally, after twenty years, the plaster surface may be rough enough and stained enough for pool owners to decide to replaster. Many plaster pools go more than 30 years before being re-plastered to improve the appearance.

If your quartz plaster surface is wearing (shedding) away, it is possible that the plastering contractor did a poor job. Make sure that the tiny particles you see are actually diamondbrite quartz aggregates. Perhaps you are just seeing sand and various debris that is falling into your pool.
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I actually did it myself (with another person helping). Spent lots of time on the manufacturer videos, resources and videos from other contractors. Tried to follow up the instructions as close as possible. I am sure it's not as good as what professional would have done it but it cost me just over $2k including materials for 11k gallon pool. May hire a pro next time but so far I am happy with the results.

Based on everyone's feedback, I will just refill the pool and just continue maintaining it (no epoxy over the diamondbrite).

P.S. Yes, it's definitely the diamondbrite particles in the filter (including it's blue crystals). It's not significant - I would estimate less than 1 quart (volume-wise) every 6 months. Like I said, the pool looks absolutely fine.
 
Its possible the best treatment might be a light polishing w diamond abrasives to get a solid smooth finish. Like 120 grit. I use a pressure washer driven Coyote abrasives tool w 3m diamond abrasives... its 8 inch and the whole pool could be done in a half a day.
 
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