Help! Just opened and not sure what to Balance first

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T

Thriller

0
May 24, 2016
19
Waterford, WI
So I kicked the Pool Store to the curb and took everything over mid last year. Just opened pool 2 days ago, water was Green as it is every year, could not see the bottom. Water Temp 56. I put in 2 bottles of Algae 60, 1 bottle Pool Magnet, 1 bottle Scale Inhibitor. Seems like I always have to put a lot of Liquid Shock in at start of season, so I put in 16 Gallons. Tested it 24 Hours later and Chlorine was down to basically zero, PH below 6 (lowest my test kit goes), and CYA which was at about 75 at end of last year is below 30 (lowest on my test kit). Had 13 Gallons of Liquid shock left so I put those in last night. This morning chlorine is zero again. Should I first be putting in some Borax to raise PH instead of trying to get a chlorine residual? And what about my CYA being that low. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
First, welcome to TFP.

Second, can you post a full set of results please? pH, FC, CC, CYA, TA, CH.

Please do not add any more chemicals like algaecide, pool magnets, or scale stuff. It is going to make it worse and harder to clean up.

We really need to know all your results to proceed. If you can post those, we can go from there...

Generally, we need to know TA and pH to get that square first. Then we are going to follow this process...print it out and read up...Link-->SLAM Process
 
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Once we see your test results, I'm curious if you might have ammonia in your pool.
One of the signs is the inability to hold chlorine and with adding 16 gallons and then 13 gallons of LC and it going to zero both times could be a sign. But let's what your full results are :)
 
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Just got home and tested everything. Rain pretty much all day here in SE Wisconsin.

Water temp 63, cloudy blue, can see drain in deep end (6.5').
FC 0.2
CC 0.2 hard to even get any reading on both of these chlorine tests
TA 80
CH 145
PH <7 test kit only goes down to 7
CYA <30 test kit only goes down to 30

Away from home pretty much from 4:00 am - 7:00 pm. Will be off Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, so want to have a plan going into weekend. Will rinse filters tomorrow night.

Thanks for the help!
 
Thriller said:
PH <7 test kit only goes down to 7
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This is odd. How are you testing pH. Can you show us a picture of the test block with a test sample in it? Have you added acid recently?

@mknauss @JoyfulNoise @ajw22 could the algaecide, sequestrant or the scale inhibitor the OP added, have lowered the pH?
 
We'll sort out the pH with your picture and follow up.

In prep for the SLAM, everything else is fine, except for your CYA. Get enough dry chlorine stabilizer to raise your CYA to 30. And enough chlorine to start the SLAM...I usually recommend 10 gallons to start...you can always take it back.

Test your CYA again. Do it in sunlight. Warm the sample to room temperature before the test (cold water will show a lower CYA). You can even put the bottle in warm water a bit to warm before you start the test (warm the sample, then start the mixing and CYA test).

Also, to save reagent, use a 10ml sample for the FAS-DPD FC test. Each drop is .5. You don't need better accuracy than this, and it will save reagent for the slam. 10ml sample for the slam too.
 
Thriller said:
I put in 2 bottles of Algae 60, 1 bottle Pool Magnet, 1 bottle Scale Inhibitor.
Click to expand...

Do you still have the bottles?

Can you post the labels of the bottles and hopefully the ingredients listed?

The Scale Inhibitor could have lowered the pH.

With a TA of 80 the pH should rise on its own.

Get 20ppm of dry stabilizer dissolving in a sock in the pool and assume your CYA is at least 30. Start the SLAM Process raising FC to 12 and maintain 12.

You will adjust the SLAM FC level in a few days as you see what your CYA is.
 
Testing PH by filling comparator to 44ml mark, then adding 5 drops R-004, cap and invert to mix, holding up to daylight and reading scale. Could not do test again last night due to severe storms. Ive had this kit for 3 years so im familiar with it. I buy new regents every year, put pool in 2008. Pic of comparator attached.
 

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ajw22 said:
Do you still have the bottles?

Can you post the labels of the bottles and hopefully the ingredients listed?

The Scale Inhibitor could have lowered the pH.

With a TA of 80 the pH should rise on its own.

Get 20ppm of dry stabilizer dissolving in a sock in the pool and assume your CYA is at least 30. Start the SLAM Process raising FC to 12 and maintain 12.

You will adjust the SLAM FC level in a few days as you see what your CYA is.
Click to expand...
Bottles were all overpriced Bioguard, could get a pic off poolgeek website if needed, wife threw them out.
 

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Thriller said:
Bottles were all overpriced Bioguard, could get a pic off poolgeek website if needed, wife threw them out.
Click to expand...
Not worth the squeeze...

You are good to go, follow this advice...

ajw22 said:
Get 20ppm of dry stabilizer dissolving in a sock in the pool and assume your CYA is at least 30. Start the SLAM Process raising FC to 12 and maintain 12.

You will adjust the SLAM FC level in a few days as you see what your CYA is.
Click to expand...
 
I would truly kick the pool store to the curb for real this time. Those products you just used are “pool store” (industry) chemicals and concoctions, so they didn’t get kicked to the curb. Depending if you continued to use them and/or others late last summer or at closing they would be responsible for opening to green, especially since you haven’t really had a full year of truly balanced water before closing. You only need LC and polyquat to close. Our pool was green every opening the first four years after we built our pool because we used the pool company and their store for chemicals. Never once since we switched to TFPC.

Brace yourself. IF you have ammonia, it’s going to take a lot of LC to be rid of it. It took us over 90-some gallons of LC to get rid of it the first year we switched to TFPC. I was frustrated because after 20-some gallons of LC we still kept losing it almost immediately. I could have let that make me doubt what I was learning here, and I could have raged and believed TFPC was no better than using pool store chems and Bioguard products after that experience, but I would have been gravely mistaken. It was simply the consequences of pool store care. it takes some determined effort to undo that damage. Luckily I didn’t let that experience sway me and we have been trouble free for 13 years, not once opening to a green pool. And we saved a ton of money.

Just be prepared for some up front expense if indeed there is ammonia involved.
 
You can probably get a cheap ammonia test kit at any local pet store that sells tropical fishPetco, Petsmart, - even Walmart used to carry them.

Might be worth the $10 just to know ;)
 
SJPoe said:
You can probably get a cheap ammonia test kit at any local pet store that sells tropical fishPetco, Petsmart, - even Walmart used to carry them.

Might be worth the $10 just to know ;)
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Really not necessary.

Pour 10PPM of FC into the water test your free chlorine after 30-minutes. You likely have ammonia in your water if you lost 80%+ of FC in 30 minutes.
 
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Thriller said:
adding 5 drops R-004, cap and invert to mix, holding up to daylight and reading scale. Could not do test again last night due to severe storms. Ive had this kit for 3 years so im familiar with it. I buy new regents every year,
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Is there any chance you're trying to use R-0014 instead of R-0004. When I ordered refills for my kit in the past I have accidentally procured the wrong one. They are both phenol red pH testing reagents, but work in different comparator blocks.
 
Thriller said:
Testing PH by filling comparator to 44ml mark, then adding 5 drops R-004, cap and invert to mix, holding up to daylight and reading scale
Click to expand...
For the pH test, hold the comparator block against a white background, not up to daylight.
Some use a white paper plate in bright light.
If still having difficulty, try using 4 drops of reagent instead of 5. With 4 drops, the color won't be so intense and may help you to determine the pH reading easier.
 
Thriller said:
With my calculations to get 10PPM of FC into the water I need to put in 2 Gals of Liquid Chlorine having 12.5% Sodium Hypochlorite, correct?
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Yes.
Thriller said:
I need to get the CYA up first though.
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No, let's get 10ppm of chlorine and see if it maintains something close to 10ppm after 30 minutes.

If not, add another 10ppm and test after 30 minutes. Rinse repeat. When the chlorine holds, add 20ppm of CYA and start the SLAM at the same time, using target FC for 30CYA.
 
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Thriller said:
Another question about this slam process, and if I do have a ammonia problem, making my chlorine disappear in a hour, what do you do through the night when it will sit for 6-8 hours with pump running but no chlorine added.
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Follow the process I detailed in the last post. After a short period of time, the chlorine will hold...when it does, you have no more ammonia and you can just do the slam process.
 

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