Metal stain help

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G

gregs

0
Sep 8, 2007
62
Florida
Pool Size
15000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
I have a 15,000 gallon, in ground, plaster, salt water pool with cartridge filter. It has iron staining from well water used to fill it. About 5 years ago I treated the stain with the Jacks Magic products and it worked well. However over time I stopped adding the sequestrant and the stains slowly returned but not as bad. I now only use water that comes from the softened water that gets most of the iron out for the house. So I decided to try and address the stains again and decided to try the Metal Magic product after emailing someone at the company. I did there sponge test and it removed the stains. We decided on 3 quarts for the pool and I followed the instructions and it did lighten some of the stains but did not completely remove them. Now I am wondering if I should try the absorbic acid treatment now to see if that will remove all of the stains. If I understand it correctly the Metal Magic is also a sequestreant. Would adding the AA to it now be a good idea? Would it require additional sequestreant? Just trying to figure out what to do next. Thanks
 
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Definitely update your signature as James mentioned & you can certainly try the AA treatment as described in the article below.
You will want to use more sequestrant at the appropriate time as outlined in the article.

Ascorbic Acid Treatment - Further Reading

www.google.com www.google.com
 
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One thing I find interesting is that the Metal Magic specifically calls for the PH to be at 7.8 or higher compared to the lower levels for AA.
 
gregs said:
One thing I find interesting is that the Metal Magic specifically calls for the PH to be at 7.8 or higher compared to the lower levels for AA.
Click to expand...
My bottle (bought at the end of last season) says ph no lower than 7.5.
I have a feeling that at least part of the reason for the stipulation is that MM can also lower your ph so they are accounting for that so your ph doesn’t fall way too low. Not necessarily that MM works better at a higher ph or won’t work at ph below 7.5.

The two (mm & aa) do different things.
The AA releases the metals & puts them in the water after which (as outlined in the article) the sequestrant is then added to bind with them so to speak. You would then either replace the metal laden sequestered water with metal free water or continue to use sequestrants in maintenance doses to keep the metals “bound” & prevent re-staining.
The AA itself is an acid so it too drops ph.
The process can be quite a “dance” as some have put it. It is well documented here that keeping ph in the low 7’s can help prevent re-staining.
Here’s a thread highlighting this dance

End stage metal removal-metal magic ph question 7.2 or 7.5+

I have my pool nearly ready to open. 15,000 vinyl above ground. It has fc at 0 (for the last day) due to an citric acid treatment. Polyquat 60 has been used. PH is at 7.0 due to the addition of citric acid yesterday (I will use AA in the future as I now understand the better binding properties...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
I will be embarking upon this soon myself so I am following along on your journey 😊
 
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You are correct on the 7.5 PH on the bottle. The person at Haviland mentioned a PH of 7.8 to start with. I am waiting on hearing back from them on what they suggest at this point. I am tentatively planning on doing the AA treatment next since I have the pool water chemistry set for this.
 
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The person I have been working with at Haviland (Metal Magic) said that sometimes the older stains are harder to remove with there product but was hopeful that it could be removed with another treatment and are sending me out some more product on there dime to try it again. I am considering doing the AA treatment as a precursor and then adding the Metal Magic after for the sequestrant treatment.

I went looking to order some AA and found what seems like a good price on Amazon. It’s around $9 a pound delivered. I was wondering if there is any difference between brands or anything in particular I should be looking at?
 
I used 3 lbs the 1st time I did an AA treatment. It was too much. I just did another AA treatment and used 2 lbs. It took overnight to completely clear the stains but it’s much better. Got on amazon for $20 for 2.2 lbs.
IMG_1606.jpeg
 
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I got my aa on amazon but duda diesel was the seller. They’re a reputable supplier that many members here use so I imagine it will be fine. Its still a bit cold here so my pool is still taking her winter nap 😴
Sequesterants can lift some very light stains but it can be hit or miss. Your best bet is AA treatment then sequesterant as the article outlines. Then if possible replacing some /all of the water so you aren’t beholden to so much maintenance sequesterant.
Certainly takes a multi pronged approach.
 
I am working on my AA treatment today and so far it’s going well. I used 2 lbs of AA in my 15k pool. There is an area in the center of the pool that still has visible staining if it’s overcast. I do not have any more AA to add. How long can you leave the pool in this state before adding the Metal Magic? Could I wait until Monday night? Or should I go hunting more AA tomorrow?
 

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I would get some more & add it as close as possible to the stained area. Is it a large area? If its not too big you may be able to just use vit c pills (easy to find quickly) crushed up in a sock and attach it to the pool brush & run it over the area. Ps - the ninja is great at crushing up vit c pills. Then as soon as its gone (or you realize that won’t lift) go in with the sequestrant.
 
Mdragger88 said:
I would get some more & add it as close as possible to the stained area. Is it a large area? If its not too big you may be able to just use vit c pills (easy to find quickly) crushed up in a sock and attach it to the pool brush & run it over the area. Ps - the ninja is great at crushing up vit c pills. Then as soon as its gone (or you realize that won’t lift) go in with the sequestrant.
Click to expand...
I left it run overnight and a little more of the area got lighter. It’s now areas you have to look for if you know it’s there. I may try to find some more AA at Whole Foods, it’s pricier there but the other option is to order from Amazon for tomorrow delivery. If it won’t hurt anything waiting another day that’s what I will do?
 
I decided to wait it out and ordered another pound of AA that is supposed to be here today. I turned the bubblers on yesterday and still have the pump running full speed. Figured it might help to raise the PH slowly since I am still under seven but don’t want to add anything yet to chance it. I also cleaned the filter. The areas look a little lighter today, so it seems to be still working at a slower pace. The water still looks clear. The plan is to add the other pound of AA today and run it for 24 hrs and whatever is left after that will just have to stay. Then I will add the Metal Magic and let it run 24 hrs and then work on getting the balance back staying on the lower 7.2-7.4 of the PH scale.
 
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In another recent thread @JoyfulNoise elluded to the polyquat buying you about 36 hours or so to go without fc. The colder the water the better as well.
I don’t think that waiting 24 more hours after your final addition of aa is necessary before proceeding to the sequestrant phase. If the stains don’t lift pretty immediately (within a couple hours) after your final addition just proceed with the sequestrant initial dose. Be sure to have more sequestrant on hand if the stains start returning upon increasing ph & fc.
 
The contact at Haviland (Metal Magic) sent me some replacement Metal Magic. He also included a product I haven’t seen before called Stain Drop. It appears to be a phosphate free sequestrant. Anybody used this or know anything about it?
 
The extra AA arrived by lunchtime today so I was able to stop by the house and add it to the pool. Interestingly, on the areas I put it on the faint stain seemed to come back darker but went away in about 20 minutes. Overall I think it’s looking good. Tonight I went ahead and added the Metal Magic for the 24/7 run. Then tomorrow night I plan on cleaning the filter and start to balance the water. Really want to start to get some chlorine back in before something goes sideways.
 
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Hi. I just posted similar .
Ascorbic Acid treatment and Sequestrant follow up (see for links to sequestrant information).

It seems sequestrant has a set of problems in prolonged use. I'll update my post with my results. Ascorbic Acid has worked great for me, but the stains come back due to my hesitation to constantly add sequestrant. I'm looking to filter the sequestrant out with backwash (love a sand filter) and Jack's Magic Filter Fiber Stuff.
 
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I too hope to at least filter out some with adding de to my sand (i add this regularly now anyway & have a boatload of it) after the addition of the metal magic. Time will tell if this actually helps or not …
Looking into reasonable fill water filtering options now before my spring refill.
My stains are possibly a mix of copper & iron. However the vitamin c tests did very well in most every spot.
My municipal water unfortunately has a pretty high copper level.
I believe my fill water also has some iron content albeit a low level.
But I had 4 sets of rusty bolts/nuts on my steps that likely contributed. I left them in service for much too long. They are gone now!
Also had some experiences with some dirty salt. We have alot of crushed concrete around our yard and it is an orange color because “something happened to it” no clue what exactly. I suspect iron. it was a greatly reduced price off of a jobsite. The dust from it definitely gets in the pool & a bunch got in when they were dumping & spreading it. Not sure how effective exchanging water would really be in my case. We are working on adding more crushed concrete (unadulterated) since that was the base layer. I also Essentially replace almost 1/4th of my water each spring upon opening anyway. So I will likely be on the sequestrant train if I want to keep the stains at bay.
My stains aren’t terrible and my pool has never turned a color from the metal content even at mustard algae slam levels. Just an overall dingyness that was very evident after using vitamin C & noticeably dingy white steps, skimmer, pump basket, & robot filter.
 
Mdragger88 said:
I too hope to at least filter out some with adding de to my sand (i add this regularly now anyway & have a boatload of it) after the addition of the metal magic. Time will tell if this actually helps or not …
Looking into reasonable fill water filtering options now before my spring refill.
My stains are possibly a mix of copper & iron. However the vitamin c tests did very well in most every spot.
My municipal water unfortunately has a pretty high copper level.
I believe my fill water also has some iron content albeit a low level.
But I had 4 sets of rusty bolts/nuts on my steps that likely contributed. I left them in service for much too long. They are gone now!
Also had some experiences with some dirty salt. We have alot of crushed concrete around our yard and it is an orange color because “something happened to it” no clue what exactly. I suspect iron. it was a greatly reduced price off of a jobsite. The dust from it definitely gets in the pool & a bunch got in when they were dumping & spreading it. Not sure how effective exchanging water would really be in my case. We are working on adding more crushed concrete (unadulterated) since that was the base layer. I also Essentially replace almost 1/4th of my water each spring upon opening anyway. So I will likely be on the sequestrant train if I want to keep the stains at bay.
My stains aren’t terrible and my pool has never turned a color from the metal content even at mustard algae slam levels. Just an overall dingyness that was very evident after using vitamin C & noticeably dingy white steps, skimmer, pump basket, & robot filter.
Click to expand...
My fill water went in green. It is brownish/green in the bathtub at times, other times it's clear. 🤷🏼‍♀️

City claims we have excellent water and no metals. But there's a clean out in my yard they haven't used in 18 years, and we're the end of the street (Cul de sac) So no telling what kind of water we actually get.

I did add two camping filters to my fill hose. So, I think that issue may be solved but not changing water.

Our coping is also very suspect. It flakes off brown into the water. However, since fill was green with no chemicals, I still think it's that original fill.

Treatment is about $250-300 and idk if I want to spend it again just to have it "unsuspend" again. Lol
 
Started balancing things after work. Started by adding some Borax using the pool math calculator. Then started to add some chlorine a little at a time. Got some minor clouding but still looking ok. Decided to not get in a big hurry and just start dumping stuff in. Then it got too dark. So I will see how it looks in the morning and add what’s needed. Still running the pump on full speed with the bubblers on hoping to raise the PH some that way as well. Tomorrow is supposed to be a wash out with rain so who knows what that will change. I really want to add enough chlorine to keep stuff from growing, but not to much to cause staining.
 
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