Borates and SWG

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blkdoutindustries

Member
Mar 5, 2024
6
Phoenix, AZ
Hi, just registered but I've been learning from the forum for a few months now since taking over pool maintenance after not being happy with the pool guy my GF hired.
Since reading and learning here I decided to upgrade and I just switched everything this weekend to a circupool 2hp VS pump, 2750 filter and pre filter and RJ45+ SWG.
Been doing a lot of reading here about water chemistry and Borates come up a lot and how beneficial they are specially for a SWG pool and looking to go that route but my concern would be with pets, I have 3 dogs that love to swim at least 3-4 times a week, they don't drink from pool since it's gated but they do swallow water while retrieving toys, they are 60, 65 and 72 lbs of that makes a difference.
Am I worrying about nothing? Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
We always reccomend newbs give TFP a try for a season before adding borates. Many find there's no need for them once everything is properly balanced.

Crud. Where's my manners ? Welcome to TFP !!!
 
JamesW said:

Borates in pool - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
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Thanks, I read all of them but didn't seem to be many post from actual dog owners so was trying to get some personal experiences if possible, skins like they sold be fine unless they were only drinking pool water but just want to make sure.
Newdude said:
We always reccomend newbs give TFP a try for a season before adding borates. Many find there's no need for them once everything is properly balanced.

Crud. Where's my manners ? Welcome to TFP !!!
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Hi, why do you recommend that? Was leaning towards borates to help with rising ph with all the splashing from dogs jumping in but if you think it's not needed I can wait.
I just did a 2/3rd water change after finding out the CYA in our pool was 150+ from the tablets or pool guy was using, was getting impossible to keep algea away during summer months here in Phoenix, that's what led me to this site and start managing it on my own.
 
blkdoutindustries said:
Hi, why do you recommend that?
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Because you got off the pool store / service roller coaster. Without them constantly adjusting things that don't need adjusting (your choice if ignorant or sales oriented), you'll likely find things are stable.

They don't adjust their parameters for your equation. They normally use a 120 TA to lessen the effect from all the pucks used, but don't alter the parameters for SWGs, nor do they adjust the low 7 PH target which is also found with heavy puck use. We find a TA of 60 and a high 7 PH stays stable when using the SWG.

In short, let's get you proper first. Then, if needed we'll go an extra step. It's OK, you're new and we have lots to deprogram. We were all there too and we got you. Ask away at any step. :)
 
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Newdude said:
Because you got off the pool store / service roller coaster. Without them constantly adjusting things that don't need adjusting (your choice if ignorant or sales oriented), you'll likely find things are stable.

They don't adjust their parameters for your equation. They normally use a 120 TA to lessen the effect from all the pucks used, but don't alter the parameters for SWGs, nor do they adjust the low 7 PH target which is also found with heavy puck use. We find a TA of 60 and a high 7 PH stays stable when using the SWG.

In short, let's get you proper first. Then, if needed we'll go an extra step. It's OK, you're new and we have lots to deprogram. We were all there too and we got you. Ask away at any step. :)
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I understand, I've never been a pool guy and didn't really want one when we were looking at houses but my GF wanted a pool so we compromised and got one with a pool :ROFLMAO:.
She said she would take care of it and hire a pool guy to come take care of it/clean it but after a year I wasn't happy with him, always fitting algae by the end of the week, etc so I decided to do it on my own, I hate when did doesn't work like it should.
I just did the large water change 2 days ago while I swapped the pump/filters and installed the SWG, getting numbers right before adding salt so I can turn on the SWG. Current numbers are:
FC 6.0
PH 7.7
TA 95
CH 375
CYA 60
Going to get MA so I can lower the TA first, then should I raise CYA a little? Been reading here that I should be more around 70-80 with the 120° summer temps here and full sun on the pool, correct?
 
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blkdoutindustries said:
GF wanted a pool so we compromised and got one with a pool :ROFLMAO:
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My Mrs wanted an above ground oval and I was dead set against all the headaches, so we compromised with a 20x40 inground. I'm pretty sure I got hoodwinked, but same. 🤜🤛
blkdoutindustries said:
I just did the large water change and getting numbers right before adding salt so I can turn the SWG on.
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Do. Not. Add. Salt. Without. Testing. It.
(Taylor k1766 kit). Pool stores and strips are YMMV.

Folks are always surprised and some are downright shocked when they see their salinity. It only comes out by draining and it would SUCK to do it again.
blkdoutindustries said:
Going to get MA so I can lower the TA first,
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60-100 TA is fine. It'll settle where it wants to be as you manage the PH in the 7s. If you'd like to drop the TA slightly faster, target a low 7 PH, if there's no rush (and there isn't) dose the ph back to 7.8 when it hits 8+.
blkdoutindustries said:
should I raise CYA a little? Been reading here that I should be more around 70-80 with the 120° summer temps here and full sun on the pool, correct?
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Eventually, yes. It's still early sesson and UV demand / daily loss isn't through the roof yet. I'd wait a bit on adding CYA. Let it mix for a couple days before you trust the 60. CYA, CH, and salt can take some time to get all up in there. Then road test the 60 CYA and we'll raise it when the summer ramps up.
 
Newdude said:
My Mrs wanted an above ground oval and I was dead set against all the headaches, so we compromised with a 20x40 inground. I'm pretty sure I got hoodwinked, but same. 🤜🤛

Do. Not. Add. Salt. Without. Testing. It.
(Taylor k1766 kit). Pool stores and strips are YMMV.

Folks are always surprised and some are downright shocked when they see their salinity. It only comes out by draining and it would SUCK to do it again.

60-100 TA is fine. It'll settle where it wants to be as you manage the PH in the 7s. If you'd like to drop the TA slightly faster, target a low 7 PH, if there's no rush (and there isn't) dose the ph back to 7.8 when it hits 8+.

Eventually, yes. It's still early sesson and UV demand / daily loss isn't through the roof yet. I'd wait a bit on adding CYA. Let it mix for a couple days before you trust the 60. CYA, CH, and salt can take some time to get all up in there. Then road test the 60 CYA and we'll raise it when the summer ramps up.
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Got it and yeah, I've learned that as long as she is happy my life is just easier so we got the pool plus our dogs love it since there isn't much for them to do durning summer here so it worked out.
I have the full TF-Pro with Smart Stir, and k1766 since that's what's recommended here, I believe in doing it right doing it once.
So with my numbers would beI safe to start adding salt after testing?
 
blkdoutindustries said:
So with my numbers would beI safe to start adding salt after testing?
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Yes. Salt isn't affected by anything else.

Don't let the instructions fool you. 10 ml. Just remember the 10 ml part when the instructions say to fill the 25ml vial. (to 10ml)

Or let your brain shut off right there and Welcome to THAT club. :cheers:
blkdoutindustries said:
I've learned that as long as she is happy my life is just easier
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I've learned that poolcare when done right is a joke. I go out to the pool and am low key sad when I'm not needed, so I create gifs for something to do. Like this one of the skimmer sucking up the sparkles.

ezgif-5-8cec660c80.gif
 
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Newdude said:
Yes. Salt isn't affected by anything else.

Don't let the instructions fool you. 10 ml. Just remember the 10 ml part when the instructions say to fill the 25ml vial. (to 10ml)

Or let your brain shut off right there and Welcome to THAT club. :cheers:

I've learned that poolcare when done right is a joke. I go out to the pool and am low key sad when I'm not needed, so I create gifs for something to do. Like this one of the skimmer sucking up the sparkles.

View attachment 556692
Click to expand...
Crazy, I just tested it and it came up with 800ppm salt with just tap water.
 

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blkdoutindustries said:
Crazy, I just tested it and it came up with 800ppm salt with just tap water
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That's how much was left from the 1/3 existing pool water after the drain. It was clearly much higher before. And case and point. 800 would have likely made you overshoot. Add 75% from baseline to target and creep up the rest. (y)
 
Newdude said:
That's how much was left from the 1/3 existing pool water after the drain. It was clearly much higher before. And case and point. 800 would have likely made you overshoot. Add 75% from baseline to target and creep up the rest. (y)
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Got it, and that's what I did, I added only 6 bags instead of the 8.5 pool math was telling me to add, that got me to 2900 ppm, I'll add 1 more and retest. Well be wiring the SWG this weekend but it's still somewhat cold here so not losing much FC yet
 
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