Old Pool - Many Questions

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mts37

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Sep 20, 2016
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Whitehouse Station, NJ
This is likely to be the first in a series of posts. A pool came with the house we bought about 3 years ago. I think the pool was built in the 1970s based on some permits I found (I mention the age because it might be helpful in answering my later questions). So far, I've done a good job at keeping the water clear following the guidance here and we've been enjoying the pool in our short NJ swim season.. But now..I need to move past just keeping the water clear and now start addressing some other "issues" with the pool.

I've attached a few pictures for reference. Right now I have two main concerns - with many many sub questions.
  • Large gap around the whole pool between the decking and coping. This is supposed to be filled in with an expansion joint I believe
    • Is Deck-O-Seal the right thing for this?
    • The gap is pretty wide and pretty deep at points - I think I need to put in a foam backer before applying Deck-O-Seal. Use something like Deck-O-Foam here? How much do you fill the joint with foam vs. sealant?
    • Do I need to remove any and all debris/leaves/old cement/grout from the joint before applying Deck-O-Seal?
    • What are the implications of NOT sealing this? Where does all the water go when it rains and drains down there? Am I doing damage to the pool?
  • Gap between the top of the liner and the coping
    • I think this was filled in at some point. There are small areas where I can see old grout/cement but most of it is falling out (I find large chunks of this old grout in the pool)
    • Am I supposed to use Deck-O-Seal here too? I think they also make a product called "Deck-O-Seal One Step" which according to their brochure pictures seems to be the correct thing to put here
    • If you look at my photos, you can see there is exposed wood - I feel like wood being exposed to the pool water due to splashing, people swimming is a bad idea
      • Is this normal to have wood at the top of the liner?
      • What exactly am I looking at where I see the wood?
      • Does the wood need to be completely dry before applying and sealer or expansion joint between the liner and the coping
      • If I ever rip out and redo the decking and coping, what would I get rid of this wood? Replace it in kind or with something else that is not wood?
IMG_7113.JPG IMG_7114.JPG IMG_7115.JPG IMG_7116.JPG IMG_7117.JPG
 
mts37 said:
  • Large gap around the whole pool between the decking and coping. This is supposed to be filled in with an expansion joint I believe
    • Is Deck-O-Seal the right thing for this?
    • The gap is pretty wide and pretty deep at points - I think I need to put in a foam backer before applying Deck-O-Seal. Use something like Deck-O-Foam here? How much do you fill the joint with foam vs. sealant?
    • Do I need to remove any and all debris/leaves/old cement/grout from the joint before applying Deck-O-Seal?
    • What are the implications of NOT sealing this? Where does all the water go when it rains and drains down there? Am I doing damage to the pool?
Click to expand...

I would not be quick to fill that gap. It looks like the pool has done fine for 50 years that way.

It is a vinyl liner pool and we don't know what the structure of the pool walls are. Provision for water draining down that gap and behind the pool walls may have been made.

Usually you fill an expansion joint with flexible mastic to keep the deck from coming into contact with the coping. It looks like everything is stable and the gap stays open.

mts37 said:
  • Gap between the top of the liner and the coping
    • I think this was filled in at some point. There are small areas where I can see old grout/cement but most of it is falling out (I find large chunks of this old grout in the pool)
    • Am I supposed to use Deck-O-Seal here too? I think they also make a product called "Deck-O-Seal One Step" which according to their brochure pictures seems to be the correct thing to put here
    • If you look at my photos, you can see there is exposed wood - I feel like wood being exposed to the pool water due to splashing, people swimming is a bad idea
      • Is this normal to have wood at the top of the liner?
      • What exactly am I looking at where I see the wood?
      • Does the wood need to be completely dry before applying and sealer or expansion joint between the liner and the coping
      • If I ever rip out and redo the decking and coping, what would I get rid of this wood? Replace it in kind or with something else that is not wood?
Click to expand...

I don't know about the wood issues. Grout needs to be maintained and replaced if it is deteriorating. Some of the gaps may provide drainage of water from the deck and the gap into the pool. So I would not be quick to fill gaps that were never filled.

@jimmythegreek @Rich D what do you think?
 
ajw22 said:
I would not be quick to fill that gap. It looks like the pool has done fine for 50 years that way.

It is a vinyl liner pool and we don't know what the structure of the pool walls are. Provision for water draining down that gap and behind the pool walls may have been made.

Usually you fill an expansion joint with flexible mastic to keep the deck from coming into contact with the coping. It looks like everything is stable and the gap stays open.



I don't know about the wood issues. Grout needs to be maintained and replaced if it is deteriorating. Some of the gaps may provide drainage of water from the deck and the gap into the pool. So I would not be quick to fill gaps that were never filled.

@jimmythegreek @Rich D what do you think?
Click to expand...

One additional comment on the gaps: definitely both had been filled in at some point in the past. You can’t see it in the pictures I attached, but there’s definitely some old foam backing in the gaps if it wasn’t already washed out. Also there’s still old grout left in some areas.

The same goes for between the liner and coping - remnants of old grout still exists in places just most has cracked and fallen out.

I asked about deck o seal because (at least for me) that’s more of a DIY job than me doing grout work.
 
I find grouting much easier then Deck-O-Seal which is runny and messy. If you think the gap was sealed before then foam backing rod and Deck-O-Seal is the right thing. Foam backing rod comes in 1', 3/4', 1/2', 5/8, 3/8" and 1/4''. Get the size that fill the gap. You can find it on Amazon in 100' rolls.

Fill as much of the gap with the foam backer rod and then you put a layer of seal on top.

You do need to scrape out and clean out the joint. Prep work is 80% of the time. You can also put a line of masking tape on both sides if you want real clean lines. You may find the seal sinks in and you need to go over areas a second time to get it level.
 
That is an expansion joint. (Do not fill this gap with grout some other sites tell you to fill it with grout.
It is an expansion joint between 2 different areas than conrrack and expand differently.)
I would use backer foam I got mine at Lowes.
It was 4-IN X 50-FT FOAM EXPANSION JOINT, Item #: 233991, Model #: 697105. Price $12.59. It has a 1/2 tear off section. Its is not listed on line but was in the store. I just trimed to the size I needed. It was cheaper than the round rod 4 times as much material. You wont the foam to be very tite to the edges of the coping and pool deck. If it is not tight the deck o deal will run down thru the small crack and take for ever to fill up and you will run out of time with the deck o seal. Use tape to close the gaps.
Deck O Seal is time sensitive for the made by date and time required it installed.
See there site.
You can order custom colors.
The wood you mentioned is it between the pool tile / Vinyl edging and coping?
 
You can use anything flexible on a vinyl pool they dont move like concrete pools. Exterior caulk, poly sand, sika deck seal, etc. Clean it all out and vacuum with shop vac. Pack it all with backer foam or sand and then caulk. That's not wood it's something else. Under the coping is a good spot for tile caulk or silicone
 
jimmythegreek said:
You can use anything flexible on a vinyl pool they dont move like concrete pools. Exterior caulk, poly sand, sika deck seal, etc. Clean it all out and vacuum with shop vac. Pack it all with backer foam or sand and then caulk. That's not wood it's something else. Under the coping is a good spot for tile caulk or silicone
Click to expand...

Thank you for all the replies so far. I did some double checking and I want to add a few comments:
  • I was wrong about the gap between the decking and coping. I don't think it was ever filled with "grout" (or grout like material). It definitely was filled with a foam backer before, as there is a lot of remnants of the old decaying foam. SO my plan of action is to just fill this gap again with new foam backer. However... isn't that going to look bad? Seeing some foam backer around the perimeter of the coping? This is why I was asking about topping it with Deck-O-Seal or something else. Thoughts??
  • I also checked the area between the top of the liner and the underside of the coping. It is most DEFINITELY wood. I attached another picture. To the point that @frazld made about it "not likely lasting that long" - well that is a very good point because in a lot of areas it is pretty rotten or softened. This gap also was DEFINITELY filled with "grout" (I am probably using the wrong term - it is like cement...). It is mostly fallen out now and I will every pool season get a few more chunks to fall into the pool from waves, etc. It seems like the easiest thing for this would be to fill it with one of the Deck-O-Seal materials (for vertical surfaces) after the wood has been allowed to dry all winter?
  • And now another point - I am not sure, but I think i've seen this happen - water that is splashed up onto the coping that then drains into that expansion joint seems to drain back into the pool through the gap between the underside of the coping and the top of the liner. I could be completely wrong on this. Just seems like sometimes when we had a lot of splashing going on in the pool, I noticed a bit of dirt that accumulated rather quickly. This is really what led me to start wondering about if I need to fill that join or not.
  • Regardless if the above point I mentioned is true or not, I think the correct course of action is to fill the expansion join with fresh foam backer
  • The only remaining questions are: (1) do i top the foam backer with Deck-O-Seal (or equivalent) for a cleaner look? and (2) What do I do about the gap between the liner and coping?

IMG_3593.JPG
 

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