Valve after Separation Tank - Keep Open or Closed?

Jump to latest Follow Reply
N

NewHomeowner

0
Jul 16, 2014
104
Westport, CT
Hi all. Thanks to everyone for your help year after year. Now in my third year of TFP, I've come to the realization that I may have had one of my plumbing valves set incorrectly... Maybe....


For the past several years, when the multiport valve is set on FILTER, the 3 returns on the bottom of the image feed water into the pump, go into the DE filter on the left, and then the valves along the house and the red one that comes out of the heater since they are all turned ON. The one after the separation tank has always been set to OFF.

The only time I've ever had it turned ON, was when I have the multiport set on Backwash, whereby I turn off the one closest to the house (behind separation tank) and after the heater. The old DE discharges into the bag in the separation tank and the water that's left goes back to the pool as that red circled valve below is set to ON.

However, I've started to think that maybe I've been doing this wrong all these years.
I have noticed that the pressure in my DE filter goes from 12psi to 22psi very quickly, even after changing DE (only adding 80% back after backwash, and I did a full clean of grids at end of last season).
When I set this valve after the separation to ON (while also keeping the pre and post heater lines open as well), the pressure falls back to 12psi... I wonder if it should just always remain open.


In summary, my questions are as follows:

1. Is my multiport valve broken? Since I have it set to filter, shouldn't water only go up along the house and back to the heater (when those valves are open) instead of out a disparate set of pipes to the separation tank as well?
2. Should the red circled valve after the separation tank be set to ON or OFF during "FILTER"?
3. If it should be left ON, then when should I ever set it to OFF? E.g. am I supposed to set it to OFF when I backwash and rinse, or have I been doing it right in keeping it open when I discharge DE?

Thank you all and apologies for these basic questions!! :confused:

best,
Sean
 

Attachments

  • ShengPoolEquipment.jpg
    ShengPoolEquipment.jpg
    90.2 KB · Views: 69
Should be opened when backwashing and closed while in normal filtration. Is water coming out of waste side of valve while in filter position you could have a bad gasket. If you leave the circled valve open during normal filtration than water will migrate back. If you're handy a 3-way valve would work easier for you.
 
No water should be going into that separation tank (the waste port) unless the mpv is in backwash, waste or rinse (or is it clean) setting.

On filter or recirculate, no water should enter the waste line.

When in filter mode, the circled valve should be closed.

We do not see many setups with the separating tank. Can you not pump any water to waste out of the pool?
 
Thanks so much for the response kadavis! It's very much appreciated!

I just went outside and shut off the valve. I had left it on all day today so hopefully nothing went awry; guess I will find out when the sun comes up tomorrow.
Just for my edification, what would be the downside to leaving it open all the time? I can't imagine any DE is being discharged to that bag as its after the filter...

As far as the leaking gasket, I just replaced the gasket last year but ran out of pool lube. Waiting for my bucket of synthetic super lube from Amazon tomorrow and then I can do another DE backwash and lube up to stop the leaks.

- - - Updated - - -

jblizzle said:
No water should be going into that separation tank (the waste port) unless the mpv is in backwash, waste or rinse (or is it clean) setting.
Click to expand...

Thanks jblizzie. That was my thought as well... Could my MPV be broken or stuck? I can switch from one setting to another just fine.

It's a closed system, so all the plumbing is circular. We don't have sewers here (on septic) so maybe it has something to do with that.
When I pump out water for closing in the fall, I use a utility pump that I attach a hose to and just dump the water on the grass.
 
If the filter pressure while on filter mode is impacted by the circled valve, then something is wrong in your MPV.

I would be tempted to add a 3 way valve in your return pipe (actually between your filter and your separation tank) to then allow you to pump directly to waste into your grass if needed.
 
Thank you both. I'll have a look into the 3 way valve... It'll sure make things simpler at closing time (instead of waiting hours to drain) and would enable me to vacuum to waste.

With respect to the leaking valve, it looks like water getting into the waste line despite being set on 'filter' is due to a bad spider gasket. Seems like a simple fix according to :
How to Replace a Spider Gasket on a Multiport Valve - INYOPools.com

For a few bucks, it's worth a shot to fix.
 
Doh! Still waiting on my new spider gasket to arrive, which should alleviate the escaped pressure issue. Until then, water gushes out of the DE separation tank whenever I turn the filter on. I found that there's a small pinhole leak along the top of the tank just below the cover.

I'm in the middle of a SLAM so it's a no go to just leave it like that for a few more days.

Any ideas on how to fix/patch the hole/crack? Perhaps some epoxy putty/super glue/loctite from the inside and perhaps outside?... though I'm not entirely sure what it'll stick to on the smooth rounded surface of the inside and outside of the tank... I suspect there's been a pinhole leak this week, and its slowly been getting larger.
 
Of course you guys are right. I used some jb weld and the separation tank still leaks.

In fact, I've replaced the spider gasket and the thing still leaks as well. Are we sure that the gasket in itself is supposed to keep 100% of the pressurized water from escaping into the Waste or backwash ports? I bought a genuine Hayward spider gasket so it fits exactly right, but water is still definitely getting to the separation tank (thus causing leak). I'd hate to have to spend on getting a new separation tank given how little it's used and should be mostly bypassed anyway except for those few times I'm changing out the D.E.

Sigh...
 
Is there no other place in the yard you can backwash, if it's about the D.E. you can try a alternative media, otherwise you will have to replace tank. Also is there good tension when pushing down handle, sometimes the springs on the key cover assy. go bad and it will not seat
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Yes, have good tension on the multiport valve and springs seem good. I tightened them down nice and good. The spider gasket I had put in with gobs of pool lubricant (actually used synthetic super lube) but didn't superglue it down.

I wonder if I need a new multi port cover and handle? Can't think of anything else.

As far as removing the separation tank altogether, there's no other place to backwash to as the kids play set is in yard and we're not allowed to run waste water to the street...
 
Multiport.jpg

Hi all. Thanks for your help. Haven't been able to fix this leak, despite changing out the spider gasket and the multipart valve handle and top assembly piece. The thing still leaks water into the separation tank, and I'm leaving for a trip and want to be able to have the pump run while I'm away.... Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? According to the posts here, no water should go down that waste piece when set to filter, but it does. I'm thinking of hiring someone to put a close valve in between the separation tank and the multiport just so I can avoid changing out the rarely used separation tank....

Could I have installed the multiport cover on incorrectly? If you see in the photo, I have the "filter" facing to the right and "waste" facing down,... but I could have essentially installed that cover in any direction. I'm hoping that someone writes back with a simple response like... "you've reinstalled the the cover incorrectly, and filter should be facing 1 o clock or something like that..." then miraculously, everything is fixed... Any chance of that happening? :)
 
To check the lid look at all the screws and one of them will have a flat side in the plastic. make sure that flat side lives up with the flat side of the bottom part of the valve.

I thought of having you add a shut off valve as well but the problem with that is if water is leaking to waste water could be leaking and skipping the filter which could result in some filtration problems
 
Thanks jblizzie. I checked and all of the sides of the lid look the same, there's no flat side. Sigh.... out of options and leaving in a few hours. Stopped by the pool store and bought another spider gasket and same problem. I have no choice but to leave it on "recirculate" for a few hours a day, put on my mesh cover, and add a ton of bleach and floaters with pucks while I'm away for a few weeks and keep fingers crossed.

It's just odd that the "recirculate" setting doesn't leak water but the "filter" does.... sigh. I'll just have to SLAM when I get back.
 
Ahhh, I see now what you mean. Yes, unfortunately, that flat side is lined up with the flat side on the bottom part of the cover... Can't think of anything else. In hindsight, I probably should have bought a replacement multiport valve instead of just the top cover... When I return, I think I'll just have a shut off valve installed, or as others have suggested, just remove the separation tank altogether and shoot the DE out somewhere and just clean it up.. stupid closed pool system... Thanks for all your help and patience!
 
Sorry, just got back after two weeks and pool doesn't look half bad, after loading up with bleach, leaving a dozen tabs, and covering pool and running on recirculate.

The original valve is closed.

Before I left, I tried crazy glue to seal up the cracked separation tank, tried JB weld putty, and neither worked. I bought another spider gasket and put it together with the new cover I bought and it didn't work either.

Just getting back now, I'm thinking I just go for a brand new multi port valve and do that at the same time as adding a close valve. Pool guys in the area want to charge $150 for adding an inline close valve and $350 for new multi port valve. I can order a new MPV for $90 bucks on Amazon or eBay and will see how much it will cost for labor on MPV. Never done PVC work before and am nervous about cutting 1.5" and especially 2" pipe in the event I can't get everything back together again. (started new job recently and hours are killer, so am only able to do any work on weekends or 10pm to 11pm in darkness with headlamps). I'm not even sure where to get a 2" close valve as they don't have it at the local leslie's nor home depot.

- - - Updated - - -

The only other thought I had was that if any of the connections out of the waste port is a screw on type, then if I can find a screw on close valve, I could just do that temporarily to restore filter ability and give me time to figure the rest of this out. It's 1.5" out of waste port, then gets adapted to 2" into the separation tank, then back down to 1.5" to reconnect to return lines. if the connection to the separation tank is threaded, then that's something even I think I can handle! :)
 
Sorry, one last one to the patient folks out there... Can anyone please confirm that what I'm looking to buy is a 2" pipe? Manuals online for SP0710X doesn't show size of waste port if the other ports are 1.5. Can it also be 1.5 so that I have to purchase a 1.5" ball valve? If you look at the photo, I'm looking to add this valve in between the horizontal section that goes to the separation tank. That part looks thicker than the vertical part coming out of the MPV... so confused.. Searching online for the parts and best I can come up with is either something cheap (e.g $11 Valterra 700-20 PVC Ball Valve, White, 2" Slip on Amazon) or something more expensive ($26 Hayward QTA1020CSEG 2-Inch Gray QTA Series True Union PVC Compact Ball Valve with EPDM O-Rings).
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply