I am very interested in an SWG for my pool and understand the pros and cons.

What puzzles me is what seems to be the constant requests on the forum for help with their operation. It seems like 95% of these questions should be handled quickly and easily by the SWG's tech support.

If so, then most of the manufacturer's must have very ineffective tech support or they are unresponsive. Is that the case?

If you own an SWG, I'd be interesed in your take. I have no agenda.......but it is puzzling to me that a) there appears to be so many "digital" issues and/or b) the manufactureres do not provide adequate support.

Am I completely misinterpreting the issue or am I being overly aware of the amount of these posts?

Great post.

All of the post's on the board is the main reason I haven't even considered getting one. Second reason is cost.

gg=alice

From my experience with Goldline, they have basically been able to tell me what the problem is not, but not what the problem was.

Only the second reason is viable. You're not likely to see many posts from happy owners expounding wonderful, yet melodramatic stories about the day to day successful operation of their salt water chlorine generator. ("Day 1 - Nothing happened. Day 2 - Nothing happened. Day 3 - Still working.") It'd be a bit like a 10 o'clock news report that detailed all of the houses that didn't burn down last night.

Support issues are a whole other aspect, however... Since the good folks in Orem, Utah (WordPerfect) folded their tents, I can't think of another company in an industry I've dealt with that has provided a high level of phone support for their product.

I've only needed to contact Goldline a couple of times, usually by e-mail, and they have responded within a few days. I think most people prefer the forum not because the manufacture support is necessarily poor, but because they probably get a much quicker response without having to wait on the phone or for an email response.

Dave,

I think alot of people search for solutions before having/wanting to deal with factory support. Thus the appeal of forums, such as this one.

Personally, whenever I have to call a company for troubleshooting, I want to speak with someone knowledgable, so that when I end up speaking with an overseas call center that reads off a script, or even a stateside person reading off a scripted "menu", I get frustrated to no end!

It never fails that as soon as I leave for a few days business trip, my wife calls with "Honey, something ain't working". The latest was on my washing machine. She gets a service center out and was told, you need a motor! I finally get home, do some diagnosing with the limited knowledge I have, to find out it's a $20 Lid Switch! Thanks alot for nothing Mr Service tech...

How did I find out to check the lid switch? GOOGLE Saved me $100 +

I can tell you from the "other" side of the phone calls, people are always looking to get a free service call, in spite of improper water chemistry levels, incorrectly positioned valves, dirty filters, etc...
We have provided that occasional "opportunity to teach a homeowner" and comp the service call, but when they are arrogantly tell me that they know their water chemistry is "good", and I find 8.0++ pH, high combined chlorine, low salt, etc... it's hard to just pay out of pocket for comp'ed service calls. Remember, I have still to pay the service center to go do a diagnostic call for me.

Are most simple to diagnose? Yes.
A salt system comes down to:
Power Supply - it's either working or not. Most systems provide warning lights or diagnostic messages
Cell - it's either working or not. Quick check is to visually inspect the cell, and test the chlorine output directly from the cell.
Flow - UL1081 requirement says there has to be a flow protection device or the cell is to be turned off until flow is corrected.
Salt Level - goes without saying that not enough salt will shut down most systems in protect mode.
Water Chemistry - Here's the difficulty with diagnosing systems over the phone. I can only go by what the pool owner reports to me. From there, I can only verify if the salt system is working to factory specifications. Once I can validate the correct operation of my system, something resulting in "I can't get a chlorine reading, but there are no warning lights on the unit", 99.9% of the time it comes down to a water chemistry related issue that is beyond the SCG's responsibility.
I will admit that very few CS reps will go above and beyond to help resolve a water chemistry issue, as there is little field experience with that.

Your next best bet is to get ahold of the regional manufacturer's rep to help resolve the issue or the dealer that you bought the system from or had install it, afterall, it is still their reputation, and they should want to help; your local pool professional (that you're comfortable with), or pool forums.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

We had a problem with our PoolPilot sensor this summer. The unit was still under warranty, so I called customer support. The gentleman I spoke to was knowledgeable and helpful and they arranged to have someone from our pool company who installed our pool (and SWG) come out and swap out the sensor. From first contact to completion, maybe 4-5 days.

Sean...we prefer Amex gift cards to cash...if you don't mind
Seriously, however, painless and pleasant experience.

Any issue I had with my Autopilot I asked on the PF site and then this one when it started. Due to the fact that Poolsean was always around and answered my questions. This year I did contact Autopilot and inquired about a specific part on the display board. The gentlemen I talked to varified what I had came up with, asked me to call back with the results. It was a minor problem that I wanted to fix. The unit is well out of warranty, still very satisfied with my unit.

Thanks. I agree now that you have mentioned it. Oldtimers again.

My neighbors, who put their pool in 3-4 years ago, and have very little idea about the working aspects of their pool, all automated, have never had any problems with theirs. If they had I would have heard about it.

So my only reason, now, is expense.

gg=alice

Dave there is adequate support in most cases, but a lot of people don't use it

i myself prefer to search for solutions myself and only if i hit a brick wall - call the support
chances are that by the time i finish with my research i'll be more knowledgeable on the subject than the guy on the other side of the phone

I don't think that it is any different for CG then for any other piece of electronics, if your VCR didn't flash 12:00 all of the time, the you probably won't have any troubles using the supplied instructions to resolve any problems. Like Poolsean and Strannik, I'm sure that you can figure out a fix!


I think that a lot of pool owners contact their locals, and the come here when they aren't happy with the result. By the time that a problem has been noted, and a request for help sent out, a sense of desperation develops along with the spreading green out of the pocket and into the pool. The wait for a tech rep is what lots of people try to avoid.



As the proud owner of, and off-label user of an INTEX unit, I'm not sure what you mean by "digital" issues, but I do think that a lot of the AutoPilot questions are here because of Poolsean - people see that they can get answers, so they ask questions. I haven't seen any other manufacturer respond to a CG question besides Strannik, and most of his customers are not in the U.S.(or they don't have any questions?) So an answer to the question -
"Which CG has the best tech support?"
The clear answer on this forum would have to be - AutoPilot.
Better questions might be "Which CG requires the least amount of tech support?", or "Which is the absolute best CG?"
"Windows 7 or Snow Leopard?". Linux anyone? Oops, wrong forum! Same answers.

Doing just a little research can answer most questions, and doing it before you purchase can help you avoid a lot more down the line, and maybe even save you some green up front! If you look at all of the models, and their features, you can decide which ones you can live with-out(Super-Chlorinate?), and which you can't(XX grams/hour chlorine production.) Thankfully, most Owners Manuals (and Installation Manuals, too) are available online, so that you can get a good idea before you buy, what are you going to get.

OK, for my dime, here are some features that I don't think add value -
- Super-Chlorinate, Shock, what-ever, just pissin' in the wind.
- Salt Read-out, if you take away all of the questions about "Low/High Salt, doesn't match test" then there wouldn't be many left, and tooo many people just start adding more salt with out ever having it checked, FIRST. They should just say "CHECK SALT LEVEL" and leave it at that.
Features that do add value -
- Clear Instructions, with good pictures, diagrams
- Clear cell so that you can see if it is working(Cool!), or needs to be cleaned(Bummer!)
- Tool-less cell assembly, inclusion of any "special" parts (like a spool-piece, or acid-cleaning stand/plug((that really irritates me 'cause they tell you to clean it and then want $50 bucks for a $5 PLUG! ))
- Ability to remove cell plates from cell enclosure to clean ( ever try to look down to the middle of one? How about one where the ends are off-set from the center, really, what is the point in that Hayward?)
- A good timer/clock, if you need one.
Note, these are for MY basic CG features, any kind of automation/control system would obviously have more complex issues, as would different water feature requirements.
I guess I should close with -
Always consult a professional before doing anything yourself, and try not to make your last words "Watch This!"

Stepping off soap box now.

My SWG is flashing "xxxxxx" all the time....digital

My SWG is spewing water and making a clunking noise.......non-digital

(technically not correct, "electronic" would've probably been better, but it sounded like a good catch-all phrase at the time )

Dave, in this case the diagnosis is easy and the treatment, straightforward:

1. Presbyopia

2. Reading glasses

New2Me, judging by the features you have listed as no value/value you'd be the typical Autochlor owner

Dave, I've been following this thread and IF I had a pool and could afford it, I wouldn't hesitate to get a SWCG! (but then again, if I had a pool, I'd have built it myself -- but you did )

The problems you MAY encounter with one are electrical/ computer or chemical imbalance or defect - you know enough to handle the first 2 and warranty will cover the other

There are enough 'pool dudes' here to help you with almost any trouble you encounter

I don't fully agree with N2M's list of requirements, but to each his own

I think you'd find a SWCG a reasonable investment (I also know where you can get a great test kit to go with it )

Those typical Autochlor owners must have been noticed by others, too, if "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery." After looking at a lot of the available models in the worldwide market, Autochlor should be very flattered! Maybe you could make Dave an Autochlor North American Field Tester, so he could share his experiences and garner more Happy customers?



Oops, I should have put a TF-100 at the top of the required good things!!!
Really, the things are pretty simple, as Poolsean pointed out. The trouble shooting is very straight forward (if you ever need to do any,) and, you can count on TFP posters for support!!!


I can't recall EVER seeing a "non-digital" issue, other then an initial installation error.
The display issues are "nature of the beast" problems, and reflect the different approaches that the makers take to protect us from ourselves.
Eliminate some of the convenience "electronic" controls (and safety,) using electro-mechanical devices only, all there is are a corded plug-in transformer and some cell plates.
When you don't want the plates exposed in the pool, you make a container(cell) and plumb it in.
When you get tired of plugging/un-plugging the x-former you put in a switch or timer.
When the x-former blows you put in some fuses.
When the cell cakes up you reverse the polarity manually, and when you tire of that, in comes another switch or timer.
And on it goes...You can see this progression in what is available in the market-place now, from the inexpensive CHLOREASE to the high dollar-models that offer control of ORP, ph and anything else you can think of. (Which reminds me, I left off Self-cleaning polarity reversal on my list, too.) Once you have an idea of what you need, what that is worth to you to get it and who offers it, you can always make test calls to the tech support to see whose response you like better. But I'd be willing to bet that those test calls would be the only ones you'll make for quite a while!

thought about that

i'm waiting for Autochlor to release a certain model, which will be very welcomed on US market as you wouldn't need to put any salt in your pool with it

once it's out i might donate it for a prize in one of competitions on here

I think it depends on who is on the other side of the phone. I have had good and bad experiences with poolpilot but mainly they've been good. I have a bad cell cable and the were able to diagnose and send me a new one under warranty. I've also had a bad board but this one seem more difficult to diagnose and required several calls and finally an onsite tech. at my expense which basically put a new board and told me that was the problem plus he said the rear main board was going to go at a cost of $800. I believe he was wrong on the second but I went ahead and ran the numbers and just bought a new system and sold the autopilot on ebay as spare parts.

With goldline my buddy called because his pool was turning green on initial start and they were able to diagnose that the installer did not set the cell type on initial setup. Something that they have a huge sticker warning you about.

I switched mine over this summer and the biggest mistake I made was waiting 7 years to do it. I used to pour the money into my pool fighting algae and listening to pool stores. I have had zero problems since and I have not bought a single chemical besides no name bleach since I switched over. I use forums and google to help troubleshoot all my problems no matter what (last week was our furnace). Unfortunately I find most service people are over priced brain dead idiots. Usually you get hosed for sub par work and I end up fixing something later anyways. My point is a lot of people will try and fix their equipment themselves so you tend to only see problems and not success stories.

One other note is through this site I also managed to learn how to take care of my water properly so I am sure that is also a large contributing factor to my success.

Those that can, do. Those with no clue, complain.