Hi,
I came across this website: http://www.poolrx.com/

is this product for real or just snake oil?

anyone ever try this? does it make any sense?

thanks in advance,

~jv

Like most "magic bullets", the reality of it's effectiveness differs significantly from what they claim.

If you need a more precise answer, post back, but the very short answer is it is not adequate for sanitizing your pool.

Just another in a long line of "systems" that use copper and other metals to supposedly kill algea at much lower levels of chlorine (i.e. 0.5-1 ppm chlorine). All it will do is add unwanted metals to your pool water and cause you to keep an FC level that will cause algea to get out of control. These types of systems are not looked upon favorably here.

would you ever recommend this product? for commercial pools?

nope, i would not

PoolRX adds silver, copper, and zinc to the pool. While those metals can help prevent algae if maintained at the correct levels (which seems unlikely given their directions), they will also tend to cause some problems down the road. Since you have to use chlorine in any case, adding metals to the water is usually a waste of time and money. When things go wrong, which they almost always do eventually, metals will cause unsightly stains, which are difficult/expensive to remove.

Commercial pools are a much different breed than residential pools. When looking at commercial sanitizers (or any commercial equipment) be sure to check if it is NSF approved. Many alternative sanitation solutions are not NSF approved and most health departments won't recognize non-NSF approved methods.

How would you compare PoolRX to Pristine Blue? I've used Pristine Blue for years and loved it- but seeing this PoolRX in stores looked pretty nice.

I wouldn't recommend or use PoolRX OR Pristine Blue. You don't need these products - they just lead to further problems.

BBB and the TFP method is all you need.

Guys- can you shed some light on something for me.

I only started using Pristine Blue because a guy suggested it when I bought pool. We have five kids- two 4 yrs, one 10 with special needs-autism (who typically drinks the water ), and two teens-- so the pool get's a fair amount of use We would use pristine blue with a chlorine shock.

It didn't alwasy look crystal clear- but our 24' pool was usually pretty good in my opinion.

My wife's concern when reading your posts is that "putting chlorine bleach in your pool seems nuts". I told her we were both ignorant; and need to learn from reading more on this website.

We have concerns about pool chemicals and our son- but shoot- I told her chlorine is probably better than metals!

Can you guys give some details on why the copper based systems are not ideal?

Copper in the water leads to staining of the pool surfaces and can turn blond hair green.

I totally understand where your wife is coming from and it is good to be aware of the different chemicals that one exposes themselves and their families to. If it's any consolation, the tap water that comes to your house probably has anywhere from 0.5 to 1 ppm of chlorine in it at any given time.

Chlorine is better than metals. The problems with copper based systems is they simply aren't sanitary.
Read this article:
http://www.troublefreepool.com/alternative-sanitizers-and-chemical-free-pools-the-truth-t3025.html

As noted on the PoolRX website here:

If you were using their system in a way that was sanitary, then you were using at least some chlorine anyway. If you didn't use any chlorine or any other oxidizer, then the pool would build up the components of your sweat and urine, mostly urea and ammonia, and anyone drinking pool water would basically be drinking in these chemicals. It sounds like you were using chlorine, but only for periodic shocking.

There are a lot of factual errors on the PoolRX website, such as their claim that silver and copper ions control viruses -- at the concentrations in pools, they don't (see this post for some technical links [EDIT] and this post for even more detail [END-EDIT]). They also claim that these metal ions with 0.2 ppm chlorine sanitize the water better than chlorine alone at 10 ppm -- that's simply not true since the metal ions at pool concentrations generally double kill rates so would let you use half the chlorine level for the same kill rate, not a factor of 50 difference. Basically, typical chlorine levels in pools (with an FC that is around 10% of the CYA level) kill most bacteria in under 1 minute while it takes silver ion 10-20 minutes and copper ion 40 minutes for the same level of disinfection.

Without a fast-acting sanitizer, such as chlorine, in the bulk pool water, then bacteria and other pathogens can get transmitted from person-to-person or even to oneself via the fecal-to-oral route (especially if one is drinking the pool water -- something one should try to avoid regardless of sanitation method). This is why such fast-acting sanitizers are required in the bulk pool water at all times in all commercial and public pools in the U.S.

Richard

bleach and chlorine are from the same chemical. bleach contains hypochlorite.... ie chlorine without all the added 'junk' that chlorine tabs have in them. By junk I mean other components that a lot of pools need but you can't control how much is in your pool using pucks/tabs, that's why many pools CYA (stablizer) gets to be so high and causes problems which lead to usually having to do a drain and refill of the water. By using UNSCENTED (important) bleach, you're only adding chlorine.

Chlorine in water is not dangerous when ingested in small quantities, but as previously mentioned you don't want to do so intentionally. But if you have a child that does it's not going to harm him. Dogs drink pool water all the time (not comparing kids to dogs of course just the fact they don't suffer great harm because of it).

A health department approved method of sanitizing dishes in a restaurant is using plain water with bleach added (I think it's 1oz per gallon of water, have to double check). While you're not drinking the water the dishes are in, obviously residual chlorine/bleach residue is not a health concern when in low quantities.

I'm not a chemist and there are a lot more people on here that can make this more technical than I, but the thing I would tell your wife is, chlorine has been used for decades sanitizing pools. Plain unscented bleach IS chlorine. It's just cheaper and easier to find thus the benefit of it. We don't use bleach as an alternative to chlorine because it is chlorine basically and we control what other 'stuff' is in the water. I'd rather swallow a mouth of pool water with a sanitizer in it than a mouth full of water that is full of METAL. The body can't expel excess metals in the body. They accumulate.

Drink More Chlorine

The PoolRx unit doesn't provide any way to regulate the copper/silver/zinc levels. If the copper/silver/zinc levels are low enough, there won't be any staining. As it happens, levels that are low enough not to stain are also too low to be effective as an algaecide. Without testing for the copper level, there is no way to know if you are using too little or too much, leading to risks of either wasting your money (when using too little) or staining (when using enough or too much).

PoolRx is certified as an algaecide and a bactericide, but not as a sanitizer. Chlorine is still required at the same levels it would be at even if you were not using PoolRx. The amount of chlorine you need to add may be lower in some situations, but the level must be the same as it would be otherwise. By the by, PoolRx is certified with only one active ingredient listed: copper sulfate, the same copper compound used in most of the similar products.

Matt,

I've been using liquid chlorine and muriatic acid exclusively for six years and I have never had "ANY" type of bacteria growth. My question would be, why would you add something you don't need? In most cases with swimming pools, LESS is MORE! Just curious, do you use chlorine tabs or liquid on your route?

Just my two cents...

Matt,

This is your first post and what you wrote sounds like a sales pitch. Also, can you please provide me the specific NSF certification for PoolRx? A search of the NSF Certified Products website does not list PoolRx (complete list of all NSF Standard 50 certified products is here), nor would it because only copper/silver ionizer systems are listed (requiring a minimum of 0.4 ppm chlorine or 0.8 ppm bromine) since NSF does not currently certify chemical disinfectants including those that "dissolve". The PAN Database entry shows the EPA registration information for "Poolrx unit & booster" which has the active ingredient of "copper sulfate (pentahydrate)" and has a use as an algaecide and NOT as a disinfectant. Of course, you are using chlorine with PoolRx so chlorine is your disinfectant and copper does prevent algae growth when used at sufficiently high concentrations, but at the risk of metal staining (especially on plaster surfaces) if the copper concentration and/or pH get too high.

Having a silly "NSF" logo on the PoolRx main page does not make the product NSF certified. In fact, I want to thank you for pointing this out to me as I have now contacted NSF regarding this claim and I will also contact the EPA regarding the statement that "The mineral combination of PoolRx forms a stable natural mineral content in the water, which kills algae and bacteria and viruses but is completely safe for humans" since it is a violation of FIFRA rules for a product to make disinfection/killing claims for bacteria for swimming pools (or spas) without passing EPA DIS/TSS-12.

The actual NSF logo (mark) is one of the following (or their black & white equivalents):



while the one on the PoolRx website is the following:



Can you really trust a company with a website that apparently attempts to deceive in such a blatant manner?

Richard

It looks to me as if it is NSF certified for drinking water treatment, see http://www.nsf.org/Certified/PwsChemicals/Listings.asp?PlantCountry=SOUTH+AFRICA&

Yup, you're right. Well, that's sneaky. NSF Standard 60 is not an efficacy standard and is not for swimming pools or spas (unlike NSF Standard 50), but ensures that water treatment chemicals do not contribute contaminants to drinking water that could cause adverse health effects. For a copper sulfate product, it essentially ensures that the copper concentrations don't exceed the EPA drinking water limit of 1.3 mg/L. That's pretty much assured in pool water at normal pool pH since the copper would stain if the concentrations were that high.

It's also interesting that their EPA registration 79817-2 looked up in the Pesticide Product Label System (PPLS) is only registered for copper sulfate pentahydrate (53%) (consistent with their PAN database entry) and not for silver ions which are also a pesticide that must be registered (they list "other ingredients" at 47%).