Yes agreed again, the extra expense of an ioniser with a decent control box compaired to a cartridge with no control is vastly different and again its a complete No No for a plaster/tile pool in either form. I have yet to try borax so I can't be counted as a full TFP'ler

This is my first year using Pool Rx, and I love it. I am a homeowner with a 24' above ground pool. I am thrilled with the Pool Rx, used with Pro Team Supreme Plus Enhancer. I initially didn't want to spend the money for the startup of the two items, but it was well worth it. Except for the first year of owning the pool, this is the first summer I haven't opened my wallet all summer long fighting one problem or another. In past summers, I was constantly making trips to the pool supply store to test for problems (and buy more and more products), and last summer had to empty half the pool and buy a truckload of new water. I haven't been to the pool store in six weeks! And even if my chlorine falls to 0 when my tabs run out, it's very easy to raise it. I shock every two weeks. My liner is not stained, my water is crystal clear, and I haven't used algecide after the initial start up dose. There is no algae in my pool and there are no phosphates. This week is the first time I had to adjust pH since opening. My chlorine tabs are Pro Team High Tech Tabs, which have that enhancer in them to help maintain the Supreme Plus level.

I was a little taken aback when Matt said he used Pool Rx in his service business with great success, and everyone attacked him, saying he must work for Pool Rx. Well, I am just a homeowner with no ties to Pool Rx (or anything pools!). In my local pool supply store, I overheard other customers commenting that the program of Pool Rx (with Supreme Plus) was fantastic, and they loved it. My biggest problem was that I didn't try it last year when the store suggested it, and I ended up spending a ton of money all summer. I'm surprised they recommend Pool Rx when we pool owners end up spending much less money in their store, and much less time messing with our pools. Is it just Pool Rx or the combination with Supreme Plus? I don't know, since I used both, but my results are fantastic. Next summer the Supreme Plus only requires a top off dose. It's apparently like stabilizer in that it's always in the pool now. My easiest and least expensive pool summer ever!

Welcome to TFP!

No one is saying that copper ions do not kill or prevent algae growth. They are just saying that the levels that do so can stain pool surfaces, especially plaster pools if the pH isn't kept lower. You have a vinyl pool so are at lower (but not zero) risk of staining. Also, the use of borates, which is what is in Proteam Supreme Plus (it's mostly boric acid) also somewhat inhibits algae growth, but does not have the side effect of staining (or of turning blond hair greenish) so is recommended here as an optional supplement. By the way, the fact that you say pool owners liked the program combining PoolRx with Proteam Supreme Plus implies that the PoolRx copper ion levels were too low to completely prevent algae growth on their own -- possibly intentional to try and prevent staining. You also mention having no phosphates so on top of everything else it sounds like you used a phosphate remover as well. All of this adds up to extra cost.

However, chlorine alone can prevent algae growth if the proper FC/CYA ratio is used (see the Chlorine / CYA Chart). There are tens of thousands of pool owners on this and other pool forums who maintain their pools using chlorinating liquid or bleach as their primary source and have no need for algicides, phosphate removers, enzymes, clarifiers, flocculants or even weekly shocking. You, too, could have done the same thing. You didn't, but that is your choice. I have a 16,000 gallon pool shown here and here that costs me $15 per month in chemicals, mostly 12.5% chlorinating liquid and some acid, though my chlorine usage is lower due to a mostly opaque pool cover (others with open pools exposed to full sun may spend more like $30 per month for the same sized pool).

The reason your pool had problems was most likely your continued use of Trichlor tabs which continued to increase the CYA level eventually lowering the active chlorine level so that algae could grow faster than chlorine could kill it. For every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Trichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 6 ppm. You mention how you don't get algae even if your chlorine gets to zero, but note that copper alone will not kill or inhibit fecal bacteria at all (see this post for chlorine vs. copper vs. silver kill times) so you should not let the chlorine get that low. Also note that some people here using borates in their pool, but not copper, have reported that if the chlorine gets to zero (accidentally and rarely) they don't get fast algae blooms, but by itself it does not completely prevent algae growth -- it just slows it down. So it's reasonable insurance without the risk of staining or tinted hair, but only if one manages their CYA level by not using stabilized chlorine as their only chlorine source.

Not having any "shocking" schedule is more than enough to consider BBB easier and simpler than any kind of expensive "system" that requires scheduled shocking.

The point of this particular discussion is and always has been the argument that BBB is simple and easy even if the other systems can work, yet the risk of staining is high and disinfection must still be maintained with chlorine. This site and it's methods are about simplicity and cost effectiveness. This means add nothing to your pool that it doesn't need. The root of the method is maintaining a properly chlorinated pool and the tools for doing so are the method itself and using simple grocery store chemicals instead of "pool products" that cost much more.

My point is that this forum is not intended to promote expensive pool products because this method works perfectly just the way it's laid out here. The people here believe in this method because it works for them, proven by all the happy pool owners who use it.

Babies can survive on formula, yes. But it's futile for a formula user to join a breastfeeding forum and attempt to convince those who do/desire to nurse exclusively to stop nursing and go and buy formula because they feel it's just as good. That is not the intent of such a forum/method (a war would erupt), and the same concept applies here. BBB works fabulously and those who use it are believers in it's simplicity. We don't need or want to spend extra money on something that has a risk factor when it's just fine the way it is.

i'll add my 2 cents...

I think blindly adding this chemical or this piece of equipment, etc. just because some ps or pb or company says you should, just hides the fact that the pool maintainer does not have control or knowledge of their pool's chemistry. I think it has been established in this thread that the experts (I am not one of them) agree that some of the products can be part of the program that keeps a pool clear and safe to swim in. The problem is, using the products blindly is a bit like Russian roulette...works for some, but doesn't work for others. Even for those that it worked for initially, often years later they report problems, some problems which that might have just "showed up", but probably existed longer with out the pool maintainers knowledge. One somewhat parallel example are those that talk about using baqua for years, loving it, then finally getting sick of it and switching.

One of the major benefits of the method taught on this site is it encourages/forces some simple pool chemistry understanding (for us stupid ones), and the need for the proper testing tools to know the critical parameters of our pools. Again blindly using this or that and relying on test strips or the pool store for confirmation of a pools ability to be safe and clear does not lead to a "trouble free pool" over the long haul for many (I would maybe even say all) pool owners. At the least, it is not cost effective.

Once some of these basic principals and testing are under a pool owners belt, some (but not all) of these additives might work great since the pool maintainer now knows what is a properly maintain pool and tests regularly and accurately enough to know. For the rest of us, we should just keep it simple and enjoy the cheap and clear water that the BBB method gives us.

Having just found this site while looking for a cheaper source for Pool Rx, it looks to be a gold mine of information. I just read thru BBB, and am quite interested in giving it a try. I have used baking soda to raise my body's pH when acidic, so it makes sense. When raising my pool pH, I always wondered why not just use baking soda. I did use it one time when I ran out of pH increaser. I would be thrilled to use these grocery store items in my pool instead of the expensive pool store items. When my local pool store was a Bioguard dealer, I always felt their computer results were guaranteed to sell product, because for all their so-called expertise, my pool was never balanced. Whatever they had me add was usually too much, then I'd have to buy more products to counteract the overage. You are right about the borates in ProTeam Supreme. Thank you for pointing it out. I know very little about pool water after all these years, but am going to start learning at the basic level, and appreciate your expertise. I've been letting the wrong people dictate my wallet.

As far as my local store advising use of Pro Team Supreme (borate), last year was their first year to switch from a BioGuard dealer to Pro Team, so I'm sure that was Pro Team's advise. I spent less on overall chemicals this summer (but still a lot), and now look forward to even less $$$ next year with BBB. I do appreciate my local store for their pool install. They gave me an above ground that requires very little cleaning. I have a hard floor, with a center drain, wall skimmer, and two returns. That gives me pretty good circulation, and most of the debris or dirt circles to that floor drain in the middle, keeping the floor clean. I rarely have to vacuum the floor. It is a must to close that loop off for winter, blow it out with a leaf blower, and add anti-freeze, but it well worth it.

Thank you so much for the info. I look forward to learning more.

Just so you know, you normally do not use baking soda to raise the pH, but rather to raise the Total Alkalinity (TA). If your pH is low, then baking soda will also raise the pH some, but baking soda is NOT the same as pH Up which raises pH more. If you wanted a grocery store identical product to pH Up (sodium carbonate), then that would be Arm & Hammer® Super Washing Soda (careful: NOT the laundry detergent). However, if you want to raise the pH with half as much rise in TA, then you can use 20 Mule Team® Borax. In practice once you are using primarily chlorinating liquid or bleach as your source of chlorine, you will rarely need to raise either pH or TA and instead may be using small amounts of Muriatic Acid.

Also, instead of using ProTeam® Supreme plus acid you can use 20 Mule Team® Borax plus acid instead. As for ProTeam® Supreme PLUS, you can instead buy boric acid directly as described in Recommended Chemicals under Borate. This post goes into more detail about the purity and equivalence of grocery/hardware store chemicals compared to pool store chemicals.

Very interesting discussion... I was quite amazed at the depth this discussion got to...

But, having said that, I just thought I would go on record as having used Pool RX for many years, and I love it...

I have had a pool for almost 20 years, and for the first 15 years or so it was always a battle to keep the pool clean and clear of algae... I live in a fairly small town in California, and we are fairly close to a lot of agricultural activity... That, coupled with the construction that always is going on someplace around us, seems to be a big part of why so many people in this town have fairly severe algae problems. My next door neighbor just finished demolishing his pool... He fought it for about 5 years and gave up, since his pool was frequently flourescent green.

All the dust and debris seems to create quite a phosphate load in the pools, and algae can be difficult to get rid of when it gets a foothold.

My wife is blond, and so are half her friends... No one has ever had any green hair, we have had no staining or any other issues... We just don't have any more algae growth since I started putting Pool RX in the pump basket 4 years ago... (My wife and her friends spend several hours a day in the pool, frequently 7 days a week...)

I have always maintained the pool, and I am your typical engineer when it comes to that, so the chlorine levels and all the other parameters have always been closely maintained... PH, TA and phosphate levels... But until I put the Pool RX in the pump basket, I was frequently battling algae infestations... I am sold on Pool RX, and I recommend it to anyone who asks (And a lot of people in Brentwood have asked me how I manage to keep my pool looking so great...)

I just have a floater with Chlorine tabs. I never shock the pool any more, I don't add Phosfree all the time like I used to... And my pool is crystal clear...

Now I have to go shop for Pool RX since the place I used to buy it no longer has it...

The amount of copper that it puts in the pool has to be a small fraction of what I would dump in when I was adding algaecide...

What you are missing is that we have none of those problems either, and we aren't using PoolRx. Chlorine alone with no algaecide and no shocking and we have clear water 100% of the time. No point wasting money on a product that doesn't add to what we have.

When mentioning the "other parameters always being maintained" you failed to include CYA which is absolutely critical to fully understand to ensure you have the appropriate FC level maintained. These 2 levels alone dictate whether your pool will turn green or not ... no algaecide or copper or magic minerals required.

I will save my money for refreshing beverages while I enjoy my clear pool.

Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone

I'm sure you are adding more than chlorine tabs in a floater. If you weren't also adding pH Up or other pH/TA adjusting chemical, then your pH and TA would be dropping over time and your pH would crash at some point.

Copper is an excellent algaecide, there is no dispute about that. If the pH is kept low, then it is far less likely to have problems with staining or with blond hair turning greenish.

By the way, is your pool plaster or vinyl? We know it's not a new pool from your description of it. For newly plastered pools, I would avoid using copper at least in the first year since the pH tends to rise and is higher at the plaster surface.

My pool is pebble tec... Sorry, I just saw this very late at night and I have to get to bed...