Brown/muddy water flowing out of return holes?

[poolguy968]

Hi I'm in the Bay Area (CA) and currently building a backyard pool. The gunite was just done about a week ago and we've noticed that some brown liquid (possibly muddy water? but not sure) is seeping out of some of the return pipe holes. I've attached a picture of the current state of the pool with the issue as well as an older picture showing how the pipe was laid put pre-gunite.

I am now wondering if maybe there's some sort of leak/hole in the gunite wall so muddy water is seeping in from outside the pool through the hole for the return and getting into the pool? Or maybe the walls of the pool may be too thin?

My contractor is just telling me its normal and not to worry about it, but I'm wondering if folks here may have any experience with this sort of thing and can share their opinion on whether I should be worried?

 

[poolguy968]

Hi I'm building a pool spa combo in my backyard in the Bay Area and at this point we've done the gunite about a week ago and are waiting for it to cure. The spa is a raised spa outside of the pool and about 18 inches high.

However while watering the gunite, I noticed that there is a part of the pvc pipe that is sticking out of the top bond beam for my spa.

I've attached pictures showing where the pipe is exposed and also put a phone on the bump to show about how much it is sticking out. I know it looks pretty flat in the first 2 photos, but there is definitely a bump that you can feel and that part of the bond beam is not level. The last photo shows the pipe configuration right before the gunite was poured.

I've raised this issue with my builder and he claims that this was done on purpose so that the workers would know where that pipe is when they do future work and won't cut into it??? That doesn't really make sense to me because wouldn't the pipe be better protected if it was covered by the gunite? The builder also says this is a pipe for adding bubbles to the spa so it has to be this extra elevated height.

When I asked for this exposed top part of the pipe to be covered up, my builder just said they would cover it under an inch of mortar when they do the coping. But my concern is that if the coping ever needs to be replaced then that mortar would have to be removed as well and in the process the pipe could get damaged.

After some back and forth, the builder said he can add an extra inch of gunite on the top of the bond beam but that I would need to pay extra for this, which doesn't seem fair because that pipe shouldn't be exposed like that in my opinion if the work was done properly.

However, I wanted to checkin with folks here to see what they think of this situation? Am I overreacting and its totally fine to just cover this with some mortar and coping? Like do you guys think what my builder is saying make sense? Or am I correct in thinking this is an issue and asking for this pipe to be buried under gunite? Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

Hi I'm in the Bay Area (CA) and currently building a backyard pool. The gunite was just done about a week ago and we've noticed that some brown liquid (possibly muddy water? but not sure) is seeping out of some of the return pipe holes. I've attached a picture of the current state of the pool with the issue as well as an older picture showing how the pipe was laid put pre-gunite.

I am now wondering if maybe there's some sort of leak/hole in the gunite wall so muddy water is seeping in from outside the pool through the hole for the return and getting into the pool? Or maybe the walls of the pool may be too thin?

My contractor is just telling me its normal and not to worry about it, but I'm wondering if folks here may have any experience with this sort of thing and can share their opinion on whether I should be worried?

Welcome to TFP.

Those penetrations are not yet waterproof between the gunite and pipe. Water leakage is normal at this stage of construction.

Before plaster you pack hydraulic cement around the pipes and then plaster on top to waterproof it.

 

[ajw22]

Hi I'm building a pool spa combo in my backyard in the Bay Area and at this point we've done the gunite about a week ago and are waiting for it to cure. The spa is a raised spa outside of the pool and about 18 inches high.

However while watering the gunite, I noticed that there is a part of the pvc pipe that is sticking out of the top bond beam for my spa.

I've attached pictures showing where the pipe is exposed and also put a phone on the bump to show about how much it is sticking out. I know it looks pretty flat in the first 2 photos, but there is definitely a bump that you can feel and that part of the bond beam is not level. The last photo shows the pipe configuration right before the gunite was poured.

I've raised this issue with my builder and he claims that this was done on purpose so that the workers would know where that pipe is when they do future work and won't cut into it??? That doesn't really make sense to me because wouldn't the pipe be better protected if it was covered by the gunite? The builder also says this is a pipe for adding bubbles to the spa so it has to be this extra elevated height.

When I asked for this exposed top part of the pipe to be covered up, my builder just said they would cover it under an inch of mortar when they do the coping. But my concern is that if the coping ever needs to be replaced then that mortar would have to be removed as well and in the process the pipe could get damaged.

After some back and forth, the builder said he can add an extra inch of gunite on the top of the bond beam but that I would need to pay extra for this, which doesn't seem fair because that pipe shouldn't be exposed like that in my opinion if the work was done properly.

However, I wanted to checkin with folks here to see what they think of this situation? Am I overreacting and its totally fine to just cover this with some mortar and coping? Like do you guys think what my builder is saying make sense? Or am I correct in thinking this is an issue and asking for this pipe to be buried under gunite? Thanks!

Yes, you are overreacting.

Pouring an inch of gunite on top of the bond beam may give you a cold joint that can cause problems in the future.

There should be no reason for anyone to dig into the top of the bond beam.

 

[RoyR]

I’d be more concerned about that 3” return line in the wall….let me know if it cracks along that line in a few years???

 

[poolguy968]

Yes, you are overreacting.

Pouring an inch of gunite on top of the bond beam may give you a cold joint that can cause problems in the future.

There should be no reason for anyone to dig into the top of the bond beam.

Thank you! So the main concern I have is that the very top of the pipe does stick out a little bit above the rest of the gunite. So I'm wondering if someday years from now, we may need to replace the coping on top of the spa and then the worker would also grind off the old mortar and inadvertently damage the top part of the pipe that is sticking out? Is that a valid concern? Like my contractor says we won't need to remove all the old mortar even if we replace the coping down the road, but I'm not sure if that sounds right to you?

 

[poolguy968]

I’d be more concerned about that 3” return line in the wall….let me know if it cracks along that line in a few years???

I think its actually a 2" return line. I guess it is encased in the gunite in the wall so it should be ok? Or do you think there's something wrong with the way they arranged it?

 

[ajw22]

Like my contractor says we won't need to remove all the old mortar even if we replace the coping down the road, but I'm not sure if that sounds right to you?

If you are in the house when the coping needs to be replaced you will warn the contractor.

If you no longer own the house it is the next guys problem.

I would expect the mortar to be smoothed out. They don't need to get down to the gunite. But you never know what an energetic contractor might do.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

That pipe is to be at the highest point in the spa plumbing, it’s very common to have them visible at the end of Shotcrete. The coping installer should be experienced in how to install the coping without damaging the pipe and having the pipe not interfere with the installation of the coping.

 

[poolguy968]

Thanks!! All this advice really helped put my mind at ease!

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Due to the fact that the Shotcrete is in place, I would not have a layer placed on top of the original.
If you are going ahead with the rolled beam, 3” is the maximum thickness before you want rebar.
The area of concern is the end of the rolled edge meeting the top of the BB that’s all ready in place.
1” tile is the correct size for the rolled edge, remember you are having a flat surface tile on a radius so the smaller size will have the best finished feel but the down side is more grout and grout is the weakest part of the installation.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Adding a second layer of product to the existing Shotcrete in my opinion is not the best of ideas.
Has the builder explained how the process will be done?
In my experience adding a small amount of hydraulic cement or other types of products is comparable to using rebound during the original installation.

 

[poolguy968]

So for extending the width of the bench, he says that he will have the gunite company come back to do it. Then for raising the height of the bench, he wants to just use non-gunite concrete

 

[poolguy968]

Thank you! So do you think my contractor is right in saying that the tiles will start falling off pretty quickly if we do a rolled edge? That's probably my biggest concern at this point. Like I know that the tiles are small so there'll have to be a lot of them and I guess that increases the chances of at least some coming loose. I'm wondering if doing a rolled edge generally ends up requiring a lot more repair and maintenance in the long run?

 

[Bperry]

So for extending the width of the bench, he says that he will have the gunite company come back to do it. Then for raising the height of the bench, he wants to just use non-gunite concrete

I don’t have a spa now, but I grew up with one. I can say most of the time you’re in a spa, you’re trying to keep your body in the water to stay warm. That’s kinda the point. Having to slouch over to keep my shoulders under water would have been a pain.

But as a kid, it didn’t matter cause we couldn’t sit still anyway and would sit on our knees, feet, whatever. I wouldn’t raise anything up.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Typically spa seats are shot at 21” and 24”

 

[poolguy968]

Thank you!! That is all pretty reassuring then! Based on what you're both saying I'm glad that I didn't do too many 18 inch benches then!

I do have one other kind of related question though: so my spa is going to be about 42 inches deep (meaning water depth) and as a result the current height of the benches mean that my feet don't fully touch the floor when sitting. Instead the feet are dangling a bit because the floor is about 21 inches below the bench. The contractor did offer to add some more concrete to raise the floor so that the feet can fully touch the ground if I want. But I don't know if it matters or not that your feet are dangling when there's water in the spa? Like is it uncomfortable? I think if the floor is raised by about 2 or 3 inches then our feet can mostly flatly rest on the floor but I don't know if this is advisable or if I should just leave it as id?

 

[Bperry]

Thank you!! That is all pretty reassuring then! Based on what you're both saying I'm glad that I didn't do too many 18 inch benches then!

I do have one other kind of related question though: so my spa is going to be about 42 inches deep (meaning water depth) and as a result the current height of the benches mean that my feet don't fully touch the floor when sitting. Instead the feet are dangling a bit because the floor is about 21 inches below the bench. The contractor did offer to add some more concrete to raise the floor so that the feet can fully touch the ground if I want. But I don't know if it matters or not that your feet are dangling when there's water in the spa? Like is it uncomfortable? I think if the floor is raised by about 2 or 3 inches then our feet can mostly flatly rest on the floor but I don't know if this is advisable or if I should just leave it as id?

Remember when you’re in the water, you’re a lot more bouyant so arms and legs tend to float a bit. It’s not like sitting on a bar stool with legs dangling.

 

[poolguy968]

Hi I am in the process of building a rectangular inground pool in my backyard and the gunite was recently done.

Now we are looking into the coping options and we have discovered that the bond beam around the pool are actually different widths on each side and none are actually 12 inch wide.

Basically it looks like the bond beam along the deep end side of the pool is only about 10 inches wide, then on the two adjacent sides the bond beam is about 11 inches wide and then on the shallow end wall, the bond beam is actually 13 inches wide.

I am wondering if this is normal or if it may be cause for concern? It seems like it could also pose some issues when it comes to installing the coping since some pieces will be too wide and others are not wide enough? I wonder if this also means that perhaps the gunite wall on the deep end is not thick enough?

Thanks!

 

[ajw22]

Seems like your gunite crews measuring tape was broken.

While the different wall thickness gives you some challenges with the coping it is not a cause for concern. Even the thinnest wall is more then adequate.

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