Pool pump energy usage

[CausticMeasures]

Hi All,

We had a new DE filter, Salt system, pump and heat pump heater installed at the beginning of the season and it seems like the pool pump is using way more electricity than I expected.

We have a 22k gallon in ground pool. The pump is a Hayward Superpump XE 1.65HP, running @80% speed for 8 hrs. This is the lowest flow rate we can run if we want to keep the heater and salt generator running.

We turned off the pool heat pump and house AC in September and had only the pump and salt system running until closing at the end of October. After closing the pool our KWh usage in November dropped by 1000 KWh! Does this sound right? Does the salt generator use a lot of power? I’m located in Mass and paying $0.30/KWh so every little bit helps. We moved in last spring and replaced the equipment immediately so I don’t have a baseline power consumption to compare to.

Is it worth switching to a true VS pump with a higher HP rating to lower the energy usage? I read we could run a higher HP pump at a lower speed and maintain a higher flow rate to keep the other equipment active.

Thanks!

 

[Bperry]

The salt system doesn’t use much power. The faster you run the pump, the more power it uses exponentially. Are you sure you can’t run the pump any slower? That’s very fast and likely the most of your power consumption. I have a larger pool and smaller pump, but don’t have a heater like that.

 

[mas985]

We have a 22k gallon in ground pool. The pump is a Hayward Superpump XE 1.65HP, running @80% speed for 8 hrs. This is the lowest flow rate we can run if we want to keep the heater and salt generator running.

Why such a high speed? Most that have variable speed pumps rarely run above 50%. At 80%, the pump drive will likely draw around 641 watts. At 50%, it will draw around 168 watts.

Is it worth switching to a true VS pump with a higher HP rating to lower the energy usage? I read we could run a higher HP pump at a lower speed and maintain a higher flow rate to keep the other equipment active.

The pump you have is very efficient but it is not being used in an efficient manner. Running a larger VS pump at lower RPM does not save much in terms of wattage. For comparison, the TriStar VS 950 at the same flow rate as your pump at 50% speed would be about 129 watts vs 168 watts for your pump or a delta of 39 watts.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Your heat pump may be adding a lot of head loss to the plumbing which causes you to need to run the VSP at a higher RPM than necessary to satisfy the SWG flow switch.

One thing you can do is install an external bypass in the plumbing before the heater so you can take the heater out of the water flow path. I would also suggest installing a FlowVis or other suitable flow meter so you can actually see the flow rate of water.

Post some pictures of your equipment pad as so we can see the setup. There may be some unnecessary restrictions that can be changed. Also, what is the size of the suction side and return side pipes used? Do you know if the buried pipes are the same as what's above the pad? How long are the runs roughly from the pad to the pool and how many skimers/drains/wall returns do you have?

 

[mas985]

The Hayward SWGs turn off somewhere below 15 GPM so there must be a lot of head loss in your plumbing to get that low below 80% speed. Most HP are high head loss but it shouldn't be that bad.

 

[Bill1974]

Do you have restrictive piping that is requiring you to run the pump at 80% to get enough flow for the heater and/or chlorine generator? I doubt the chlorine generator or the heat pump are require the pump to run at 80% to run continuously. I would slow down the pump to see where chlorine generator or heat pump stop working. I think both have pressure switches to determine if there in enough flow to funtion. Check to make sure there is the appropriate amount of straight pipe (look in the install manuals for this) before and after the CG and HP so the pressure switches work correctly. Is your DE filter very restrictive/undersized?

If all you change is the pump to larger one and hope to run it slower, you will probably see a reduced energry use, but not a significant one. Do you have sufficient electrical supply to run a larger pump (most likely yes)? Also check to make sure you have the correct voltage available too.

 

[1poolman1]

Hi All,

We had a new DE filter, Salt system, pump and heat pump heater installed at the beginning of the season and it seems like the pool pump is using way more electricity than I expected.

We have a 22k gallon in ground pool. The pump is a Hayward Superpump XE 1.65HP, running @80% speed for 8 hrs. This is the lowest flow rate we can run if we want to keep the heater and salt generator running.

We turned off the pool heat pump and house AC in September and had only the pump and salt system running until closing at the end of October. After closing the pool our KWh usage in November dropped by 1000 KWh! Does this sound right? Does the salt generator use a lot of power? I’m located in Mass and paying $0.30/KWh so every little bit helps. We moved in last spring and replaced the equipment immediately so I don’t have a baseline power consumption to compare to.

Is it worth switching to a true VS pump with a higher HP rating to lower the energy usage? I read we could run a higher HP pump at a lower speed and maintain a higher flow rate to keep the other equipment active.

Thanks!

While your pump is a "true" VSP, it is also a small one (1.65THP) and a medium-head pump. That means it needs to run at a higher rate to get the water to flow past whatever restriction there is in your system.
A higher horsepower, high-head pump, like the TriStar VS 950 (2.7THP) mas985 mentioned, would work better and save energy while doing so.

 

[reggiehammond]

Was ~1000 kWh reduction once only heat pump was removed?

~1000 kWh to to run pool pump (at higher speeds than typical for VSP) and a heat pump is not unreasonable.

 

[1poolman1]

Hi All,

We had a new DE filter, Salt system, pump and heat pump heater installed at the beginning of the season and it seems like the pool pump is using way more electricity than I expected.

We have a 22k gallon in ground pool. The pump is a Hayward Superpump XE 1.65HP, running @80% speed for 8 hrs. This is the lowest flow rate we can run if we want to keep the heater and salt generator running.

We turned off the pool heat pump and house AC in September and had only the pump and salt system running until closing at the end of October. After closing the pool our KWh usage in November dropped by 1000 KWh! Does this sound right? Does the salt generator use a lot of power? I’m located in Mass and paying $0.30/KWh so every little bit helps. We moved in last spring and replaced the equipment immediately so I don’t have a baseline power consumption to compare to.

Is it worth switching to a true VS pump with a higher HP rating to lower the energy usage? I read we could run a higher HP pump at a lower speed and maintain a higher flow rate to keep the other equipment active.

Thanks!

The largest energy users are both those A/C units. A heat pump is just an A/C that puts the heat in the water instead of the outdoor atmosphere.

 

[CausticMeasures]

The salt system doesn’t use much power. The faster you run the pump, the more power it uses exponentially. Are you sure you can’t run the pump any slower? That’s very fast and likely the most of your power consumption. I have a larger pool and smaller pump, but don’t have a heater like that.

Yes unfortunately I’ve tried every pump speed and a 80% the heater shuts off but now I'm not 100% sure what speed the salt generator shuts off at.

 

[CausticMeasures]

Why such a high speed? Most that have variable speed pumps rarely run above 50%. At 80%, the pump drive will likely draw around 641 watts. At 50%, it will draw around 168 watts.


The pump you have is very efficient but it is not being used in an efficient manner. Running a larger VS pump at lower RPM does not save much in terms of wattage. For comparison, the TriStar VS 950 at the same flow rate as your pump at 50% speed would be about 129 watts vs 168 watts for your pump or a delta of 39 watts.

When I run the pump at a lower speed the heater shuts off due to low flow. My family is spoiled now and refuses to swim in water below 80+ F!

 

[mas985]

What is the filter pressure when running at 80%?

 

[CausticMeasures]

Your heat pump may be adding a lot of head loss to the plumbing which causes you to need to run the VSP at a higher RPM than necessary to satisfy the SWG flow switch.

One thing you can do is install an external bypass in the plumbing before the heater so you can take the heater out of the water flow path. I would also suggest installing a FlowVis or other suitable flow meter so you can actually see the flow rate of water.

Post some pictures of your equipment pad as so we can see the setup. There may be some unnecessary restrictions that can be changed. Also, what is the size of the suction side and return side pipes used? Do you know if the buried pipes are the same as what's above the pad? How long are the runs roughly from the pad to the pool and how many skimers/drains/wall returns do you have?

That makes sense. I have questioned the plumbing job done by the installers )based on my limited plumbing knowledge). No sweeps, just hard 90’s. The bypass and Flowvis are great ideas thanks.

I believe the visible pvc is 2 inch but have no idea what’s buried since the previous owners didn’t leave any documentation/info for the pool. It has one skimmer, main drain and 2 supply lines (feeding 4 return jets) and one supply feeding a water feature we never use. There’s also a capped line that was used for a Polaris vacuum at some point. I would guess the return lines are 50 ft. The skimmer line maybe 25 ft.

 

[CausticMeasures]

What is the filter pressure when running at 80%?

I know at full speed the filter pressure was around 16 psi with fresh DE powder. I think it was around 12 psi at 80%.

 

[Bperry]

That makes sense. I have questioned the plumbing job done by the installers )based on my limited plumbing knowledge). No sweeps, just hard 90’s. The bypass and Flowvis are great ideas thanks.

I believe the visible pvc is 2 inch but have no idea what’s buried since the previous owners didn’t leave any documentation/info for the pool. It has one skimmer, main drain and 2 supply lines (feeding 4 return jets) and one supply feeding a water feature we never use. There’s also a capped line that was used for a Polaris vacuum at some point. I would guess the return lines are 50 ft. The skimmer line maybe 25 ft.

The setup sounds very similar to mine, except all my pipes are 1.5”. I have one small waterfall, 4 return ports, one main drain but two skimmers. Though I removed my Polaris pump and plumbed it in as an extra return. The heater is probably what’s holding up the speed reduction possibility.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yeah, not the greatest plumbing job I've seen but certainly not the worst.

So while it is my professional opinion that those zinc anodes are utterly worthless, the one you have installed there is plumbed upside down. Since zinc chemically corrodes into oxides, hydroxides, and carbonates (it ain't protecting squat galvanically), the debris that the zinc sheds should be captured in the clear plastic cup. In your configuration, any debris shed by the zinc goes straight into the plumbing and out to your heater ... not a great idea as the zinc scale can cause things to get plugged up. My first suggestion is to remove it and throw it in the trash ... if that is not acceptable, then at least rotate it 180 degrees so that it is not launching junk into your plumbing.

@mas985 can give you the analysis of the hydraulics ...

 

[CausticMeasures]

Do you have restrictive piping that is requiring you to run the pump at 80% to get enough flow for the heater and/or chlorine generator? I doubt the chlorine generator or the heat pump are require the pump to run at 80% to run continuously. I would slow down the pump to see where chlorine generator or heat pump stop working. I think both have pressure switches to determine if there in enough flow to funtion. Check to make sure there is the appropriate amount of straight pipe (look in the install manuals for this) before and after the CG and HP so the pressure switches work correctly. Is your DE filter very restrictive/undersized?

If all you change is the pump to larger one and hope to run it slower, you will probably see a reduced energry use, but not a significant one. Do you have sufficient electrical supply to run a larger pump (most likely yes)? Also check to make sure you have the correct voltage available too.

Don’t believe the plumbing or filter are restrictive or undersized. I upgraded the electrical to 100 amps to handle the heat pump. Hoping I can squeeze a larger pump in there if needed.

 

[CausticMeasures]

Was ~1000 kWh reduction once only heat pump was removed?

~1000 kWh to to run pool pump (at higher speeds than typical for VSP) and a heat pump is not unreasonable.

The confusing thing is the 1000kWh reduction was after the pool pump was shut down. The heat pump had been off for a month prior to that.

 

[CausticMeasures]

Yeah, not the greatest plumbing job I've seen but certainly not the worst.

So while it is my professional opinion that those zinc anodes are utterly worthless, the one you have installed there is plumbed upside down. Since zinc chemically corrodes into oxides, hydroxides, and carbonates (it ain't protecting squat galvanically), the debris that the zinc sheds should be captured in the clear plastic cup. In your configuration, any debris shed by the zinc goes straight into the plumbing and out to your heater ... not a great idea as the zinc scale can cause things to get plugged up. My first suggestion is to remove it and throw it in the trash ... if that is not acceptable, then at least rotate it 180 degrees so that it is not launching junk into your plumbing.

@mas985 can give you the analysis of the hydraulics ...

To be fair, my installer said something similar regarding the anode. I asked for it based on everything I read claiming salt generators would cause corrosion to the heater. I figured it couldn’t hurt to add it. I also asked for it installed sideways or downwards but they were concerned it would be more likely to leak installed that way. Is the info about heat exchanger corrosion BS?

 

[Bperry]

The confusing thing is the 1000kWh reduction was after the pool pump was shut down. The heat pump had been off for a month prior to that.

Running that pump at 80% will take a lot of power.