Auto Chlorinator pool accident in Russia

[Quant]

I thought this was interesting as a lot of users here have automated chlorination which looks like it is similar to this set up that went terribly wrong. It is an example how something like this becoming dangerous.

21 Children have been injured and six are in critical condition by an over-release of chlorine in an indoor pool. The report says 250 times the normal treatment of chlorine was released. The pictures in the article shows a set up that looks like what I have seen around here with apparent plastic chemical tanks and pumps. I assume someone turned a pump on and let it run full on until kids started to get hurt. I don't think it is a chlorine gas set up. It could be their pumps are way overpowered and can move dangerous amounts of chlorine in a short time.

At the short glance the video gives of the pool I am estimating it to be about 50K gallons. The chlorine target level for an indoor pool with no CYA would put the " 250 times the normal treatment" (from the report) to at least 125 ppm of chlorine. According to the Pool Math App, that would take an entire 50 gallon drum of 12.5%. Most of us have smaller pools and use 30 gallon barrels, but the relative proportions are about the same between tank and pool. So dumping all that chlorine is bad—as if we did not already know that. And of course most of our pools are outdoors to the relative danger would be a lot less especially considering the chlorine is delivered slowly by a low flow pumps commonly used by members here.

Six children ill after Russian swimming pool uses too much chlorine

My exit question is; has anyone put in safety controls to prevent over chlorination or at least to provide alerting of over chlorination in an automated set up?

 

[kimkats]

Scary and sad. Should have a double or triple control set up to keep this kind of thing from happening.

 

[Dirk]

We were just discussing this in another thread. The simplest, most foolproof solution is to fill the supply tank with only an amount of chlorine (or muriatic acid) that if fully discharged would not cause any undo harm to humans or damage to pool or equipment. An SWG cannot create this type of dangerous level of chlorine, it just doesn't have the capacity to do so (unless you ignore your pool for a week or two and leave the SWG maxed out 24/7). My acid tank contains only 2 gallons of acid max, and usually quite a bit less. Using a 30 gallon tank of chlorine or acid, with a pump run by a computer, is just too risky for my sensibilities... Trying to negate the risk with computerized chemical monitoring would be a layer of protection, but not immune from a similar type of mechanical or electronic failure.

Another point for SWG in the SWG vs liquid-chlorine-based automation system comparison...

 

[JJ_Tex]

Sadly, I'm sure every UV and Ozone salesman in the world has this article bookmarked. Hopefully the kids will be ok.

 

[Quant]

We were just discussing this in another thread.

I did a search for "Russia" in the forum before I posted this. Don't know how I missed the other thread.

 

[mknauss]

I did a search for "Russia" in the forum before I posted this. Don't know how I missed the other thread.

Not this specific issue you posted. The issue discussed was the volume of chemical stored and its effect if a malfunction dumped the entire contents into the pool water.

 

[JamesW]

Any commercial operation needs to be supervised by competent, trained and qualified people at all times in addition to a system designed with multiple safety interlocks.

Even a well designed, installed and maintained system can malfunction.

That’s why someone needs to constantly watch all operations and be ready to respond if something malfunctions.

 

[phonedave]

We were just discussing this in another thread. The simplest, most foolproof solution is to fill the supply tank with only an amount of chlorine (or muriatic acid) that if fully discharged would not cause any undo harm to humans or damage to pool or equipment. An SWG cannot create this type of dangerous level of chlorine, it just doesn't have the capacity to do so (unless you ignore your pool for a week or two and leave the SWG maxed out 24/7). My acid tank contains only 2 gallons of acid max, and usually quite a bit less. Using a 30 gallon tank of chlorine or acid, with a pump run by a computer, is just too risky for my sensibilities... Trying to negate the risk with computerized chemical monitoring would be a layer of protection, but not immune from a similar type of mechanical or electronic failure.

Another point for SWG in the SWG vs liquid-chlorine-based automation system comparison...

I don't think a SWCG would ever hit those levels. Even if I ran mine 24/7, the balance point would likely be much less than 250x the normal dose.

I would like to know how this happened. the CDC recommends testing public pools at least twice a day, and hourly when in heavy use. Granted who knows what is required in Russia. But if I am a US pool operator I test when the pool opens, and then every hour during operations (maybe every 2 if it is slow)

At that schedule, it would almost have to be a dump of owe of the tanks into the pool. Strange situation all around.

 

[Dirk]

I would like to how this happened.

Even if Russia does have their version of a CDC, what makes you think their citizens would follow its recommendations any better than the people of our country follow ours? Someone got lax, didn't test the pool that hour, or day, or week... When was the last time you were at a public pool? Not hard to imagine how many pools in the world don't get tested and maintained as often as they should...

 

[JamesW]

There had to be a lot of chlorine gas or chlorinated gasses released/generated.

Even if they publish a report, it will not likely be complete or accurate.

Possibly a lot of acid was released in addition to chlorine which could release chlorine gas or possibly a lot of organic ammonia compounds built up and got converted to nitrogen trichloride when combined with chlorine.

If chlorine gas was being used, then it can get deadly very quickly.

 

[JamesW]

Someone got lax, didn't test the pool that hour, or day, or week.

I don't think that it would be a testing issue.

If it slowly built up, people would complain and would leave the area due to the smell.

Most likely a lot of chlorine was released in a very short period of time.

 

[Quant]

If chlorine gas was being used, then it can get deadly very quickly.

I think Chlorine gas chlorination is not uncommon in large facilities but the chlorination happens apart from the swimming areas in the case. This picture from the news reports looks like just simple tanks with pumps. Chlorine on the right, almost empty and acid on the left with some in it.

Somehow that whole tank had to get pumped into the pool in a fairly short time frame. with the size of hoses, I have no idea how that might have happened. It be as crazy as the untrained new guy thought he had to put the delivery of new chlorine in the pool instead of the tank? Like his boss told him over the phone, "yea just poor it all in"….

I doubt we will hear anything more on this. I'll check Russian sources (I am fluent) in a few months—maybe that will have something about the conclusion.

 

[mguzzy]

wow. I hope the kids will be alright. You guys with Stenner pumps.. how fast could it drain a 30 gallon tank?

 

[Dirk]

There are a ton of variables and unknowns, but the following Stenner chart suggests that if the injection pump being used was similar, this accident didn't happen in an hour, or even over several hours. I'm guessing the pump ran all night and the kids got in the pool unsuspecting, because the water wasn't tested first thing.

If maintenance was lax, which seems likely, I think it's possible a pool dosed like that, burning off all the organics all night, might have smelled less like chlorine than it normally did from day to day, chock full of CC (pee-pee). So no one noticed the overdose until they got in...

What happened to the kids is awful, but I have some sympathies, too, for what I imagine of the staff. Probably a couple of over-worked, under-paid, pimply-faced teenagers running around trying to set up the pool for 30 screamin' kids clamoring to get in. If testing the pool was even part of their regime/responsibility, it's easy to see how that might get put off until the initial onslaught of pool users gets settled.

Hopefully everybody will be OK and it'll never happen again...

 

[JamesW]

Here’s another Russian pool death story caused by someone adding 25 kg (55 lb) dry ice to a pool.

Carbon dioxide is about 1.5 times the weight of air. So, the gas stayed close to the surface of the pool and people could not get any normal air which contains oxygen.

Three die in dry-ice incident at Moscow pool party

Dry ice was poured into the baths at an Instagram influencer's birthday party, media reports say.

www.bbc.com

 

[mgtfp]

People keep forgetting how dangerous CO₂ (or more precisely the lack of O₂) can be. It also used to be a dangerous problem in wine making, CO₂ from the fermentation process accumulating in the wine cellar. They used to have candles in cellars as a warning system. Problem with that is that there can still be enough O₂ to keep the candle burning with CO₂ already being at lethal levels. These days the candles have been replaced by sensors.

Apart from the suffocation risk, I am wondering what effect on pH dumping all that dry ice would have.

 

[phonedave]

People keep forgetting how dangerous CO₂ (or more precisely the lack of O₂) can be. It also used to be a dangerous problem in wine making, CO₂ from the fermentation process accumulating in the wine cellar. They used to have candles in cellars as a warning system. Problem with that is that there can still be enough O₂ to keep the candle burning with CO₂ already being at lethal levels. These days the candles have been replaced by sensors.

Apart from the suffocation risk, I am wondering what effect on pH dumping all that dry ice would have.

I once stuck my head in a fermenting bucket of beer to smell how it was going along. It hurts. Never did that again.

 

[AUSpool]

Lake Nyos. Killed 1746 people and every other animal within a 16 mile radius in 1986 due to a massive CO2 eruption.

 

[Quant]

There are a ton of variables and unknowns, but the following Stenner chart suggests that if the injection pump being used was similar, this accident didn't happen in an hour, or even over several hours. I'm guessing the pump ran all night and the kids got in the pool unsuspecting, because the water wasn't tested first thing.

You linking the Stenner chart makes me think now even more that some new guy, operating under poor instructions, miss-understood and dumped the whole Cl delivery into the pool rather than the pump tank. Maybe even right before the pool opened.

 

[Dirk]

Certainly could have been something like that...