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It is currently May 23rd, 2012, 12:15 pm
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JamesW
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Post subject: Cyanuric acid and bleach  Posted: March 26th, 2011, 7:04 pm |
Joined: March 2nd, 2011, 8:02 pm Posts: 1611
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Split off of this topic. JasonLionDo not pour bleach directly on the cyanuric acid. Dilute the bleach and add it away from the cyanuric acid. Quote: The reaction of an isocyanurate with hypochlorite can result in rapid formation of nitrogen trichloride, which at high enough concentrations will detonate spontaneously with great violence. http://www.taylortechnologies.com/Chemi ... ntentID=73
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JasonLion
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Post subject: Re: Can I pour liquid bleach over my CYA ?  Posted: March 26th, 2011, 8:15 pm |
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Joined: May 7th, 2007, 3:03 pm Posts: 23723 Location: Silver Spring, MD
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Cyanuric acid, used to raise the CYA level, is not an isocyanurate, and thus not explosive when mixed with bleach. Dichlor and trichlor are both isocyanurates, and can explode when mixed with bleach.
_________________ 19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot TFP Admin. Creator of The Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School
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chem geek
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Post subject: Re: Can I pour liquid bleach over my CYA ?  Posted: March 26th, 2011, 8:40 pm |
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Joined: March 28th, 2007, 2:40 pm Posts: 5402 Location: San Rafael, CA USA
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I think you meant to say that CYA is not a chlorinated isocyanurate, but your point is still valid. Anyway, there's not much point pouring bleach literally on top of the CYA anyway -- it can just be poured over another return flow or if there is only one return then further away from the return.
_________________ 16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter 12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"
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JamesW
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Post subject: Re: Can I pour liquid bleach over my CYA ?  Posted: March 26th, 2011, 11:03 pm |
Joined: March 2nd, 2011, 8:02 pm Posts: 1611
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Adding the bleach near the cyanuric acid with a good flow of water should probably not cause any problems. However, I believe that it is a best practice to avoid adding chemicals in close proximity to each other. Cyanuric acid can be oxidized by hypochlorite, in concentrated solutions, in the following manner, forming nitrogen trichloride as an intermediate. H 3Cy + OH - --> H 2Cy - + H 2O Cyanuric acid + hydroxide --> Cyanurate + water H 2Cy - + 2ClO - --> Cl 2Cy - + 2OH -Cyanurate + hypochlorite --> dichloroisocyanurate + hydroxide Cl 2Cy - +7ClO - + 4H 2O --> 3NCl 3 + 2CO 2 + HCO 3 - + 7OH -Dichloroisocyanurate + hypochlorite + water --> Nitrogen trichloride + carbon dioxide + bicarbonate + hydroxide 3NCl 3 + 9OH - --> 1.5N 2 + 4.5ClO - + 4.5Cl - + 4.5H 2O Nitrogen trichloride + hydroxide --> nitrogen gas + hypochlorite + chloride + water Overall: H 3Cy + 4.5ClO - --> 1.5N 2 + 4.5Cl - + 3CO 2 + 1.5H 2O Reference
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JasonLion
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Post subject: Re: Cyanuric acid and bleach  Posted: March 27th, 2011, 7:39 am |
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Joined: May 7th, 2007, 3:03 pm Posts: 23723 Location: Silver Spring, MD
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This side conversation has been moved to The Deep End. Please do not post advanced chemistry in the Just Getting Started area. Thanks JasonLion
_________________ 19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot TFP Admin. Creator of The Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School
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chem geek
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Post subject: Re: Cyanuric acid and bleach  Posted: March 27th, 2011, 5:55 pm |
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Joined: March 28th, 2007, 2:40 pm Posts: 5402 Location: San Rafael, CA USA
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This post I wrote a while ago talks about the oxidation of CYA by chlorine, but this isn't a particularly fast process. At any rate, it is a good idea to avoid mixing concentrated chemicals in general. Particularly troublesome is Cal-Hypo and Trichlor as shown in this link while this link shows that Cal-Hypo's flammability is a function of its concentration. Also troublesome is acid with chlorine.
_________________ 16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter 12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"
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