Hello
Here is an update of what has happened lately. In response to a piece of advise from the long haired general (what a mistake) we contacted the guy who built the pool for us as she wanted his opinion. He told her to use the remainder of the chemicals that he used to clean the water after the pool was filled for the first time. This water was from the local reservoir and very dark green in colour, but whatever it was he put cleared the water in a few days. I had hoped for a similar result. Three days ago I put in the chemical ( Thai name Saan Dtom?) no English translation available, it is a white granular substance that turned the water into a colour similar to that of watery milk. After two days the water had cleared a little where I was able to see a white powdery substance laying on the bottom of the pool. I tried to vacuum it away but only succeeded in stirring up the remaining chemical rendering it impossible to see the bottom of the pool again. I suppose after a lot more vacuuming I might get the water clear again. Has anybody living in Thailand had a similar experience or knows the name of a chemical used for such a purpose.
I did a test this morning and found FC at 1.5 and CC at .5. I did not bother to do anymore as it seemed pointless.
Any help or advice will be gratefully received
Mike

I haven't read the whole topic but, The best thing you can do is keep the FC up and keep vacuuming.

Thanks Dave
Looking at the water tonight I think I am in for a long run on this one. I will add more Bleach and see what happens. I will keep you posted.
Regards
Mike

You need to keep the FC at 12 ppm until the shock process is complete. The shock process is complete when you have met all three criteria:
1 the FC drops by 1 ppm or less overnight (test only after the sun goes down and before it comes back up with at least 8 hours between tests)
2 there is .5 ppm or less of CC
3 the water is clear

If you want to clear the pool you need to pick one method and stick with it. It will take more than a couple of days to clear the pool.

Run a complete set of tests, plug the numbers into the pool calculator, and keep the FC at the recommended shock level until the shock process is completed. You will need to retest the FC every couple of hours for the first couple of days and bring the FC back to shock level after each test. Keep the filter running 24/7 and backwash when the return flow into the pool decreases.

Hello and thanks
I have now been testing, hoovering and backwashing for two weeks and the problem is still the same. After hoovering and backwashing the material deposited on the bottom of the pool becomes active again being dispersed back in to the water by the action of hoovering, it is so fine that even with the slowest action in pushing the hoover across the pool it quickly becomes suspended in the water again. Do I have any other options other than emptying the pool? I hope so as this would be a financial disaster in restocking the pool water.
Unfortunately due to the lack of being able to buy any R-0870 granules I cannot carry out FC testing. I have the quick test kit and that shows a greater amount of Chlorine than 5 but I do not know if I am hitting the target of 12ppm. The last overnight test was Ok no loss greater than 1 was recorded but I cannot continue with that now due to the lack of R-0870.
Any advise or suggestion will be gratefully received
Regards
Mike

You can get a rough estimate of how much FC you have with your current test by diluting the test sample 1:1 with unchlorinated water, running the test and doubling your result.

Hello Everyone
After 3 years of trying to find a local supplier of Borax I have succeeded! but he tells me it is dangerous to use unless you know what you are doing. Is it dangerous, is there any special method in adding it to the pool water? I am being charged approximately $56 for 25kg is that OK? I will have to accept it anyway, he probably knows he has me over a barrel!! sorry about that one.
Regards
Mike

Do you have the exact name of the product so we can look it up? Either he doesn't know what he is talking about or he is selling you something else. Borax is commonly used as a laundry detergent additive to whiten/brighten clothes and is safe to handle with minimal precautions. Keep the powder out of eyes, nose, and mouth and wash hands after handling the borax. Once dissolved in pool water it is perfectly safe.

Borax in bulk is considered a hazardous chemical in some parts of the world. It's not as hazardous as chlorine in any form and we deal with it every day. Just add and make sure it dissolves well. I wouldn't stick my head in the container and breathe it in but barring that it's pretty safe.

He may be thinking about calcium which has a violent thermal reaction when mixed in too little water.

You can read more in Are Borates Safe to Use? Oral toxicity for rats is at around 4-5 grams per kilogram body weight while for dogs it is around 1 gram per kilogram body weight so figure that ingesting 50 or so grams would be the toxic level for an adult so somewhat more than 3 tablespoons. If you put a 100 margin of exposure (MOE) on that, which is what the EPA does, then we are talking about 500 mg or 1/10th of a teaspoon. The margin of exposure (MOE) has a factor of 10 for inter-species uncertainty (i.e. that humans may behave differently than rats or dogs) and a factor of 10 for sampling error or individual diversity (i.e. that some members of the species may be more sensitive than others).

So one should be careful when handling concentrated borates and should not directly ingest the product, but for normal handling there should be no problem. Note, for example, that the toxic level for plain table salt is 3 grams per kilogram so similar to borates with rats. I hope that puts things into perspective.

Hello All
I have at last received my Borax. It manufactured in Turkey and has a trade name? on the bag of ETiDEKAHIDRAT, 99.9% Borax Decahydrate and its granular. Is this the right sort of stuff and if so how do I put in the pool. I think I have read somewhere that it has to be mixed with MA. I thought Borax was a replacement for Soda Ash. I hope I do not have to try and find an acid supplier as that could take another lifetime, is it OK to use without MA?
The pool is clearing and this morning the bottom was visible although the water was still a little cloudy but that was after I had added some Chlorine, I then carried out a full test with the following results. FC-4,CC-0,CC-4,pH-7.5, T/A-60, CH-250 and CYA-30
I would like to thank everyone who has contributed their advice on this subject and I feel the end of the problem is in sight
Thanks
Mike

Yes that is Borax and should be fine for your purposes Borax will raise your PH and TA so after adding the proper amount of Borax you need to test and adjust these levels if necessary. Seeing as how your TA is a tad low that should be fine, you may however need to adjust PH after adding borax use the pool calculator to see what effect this should* have. The calculator is no replacement for testing.

http://www.poolcalculator.com/

Hello Mr Bones
Thanks for your advice. I have just completed today's test with the following results:- FC=1.0, CC=1.5, TC=2.5 (Target 5) pH = 7.5 (Target 7.5) T/A = 70 (Target 80) CH = 225 (Target 300) CYA =20 (Target 40)
Based on my pool holding 70000 litres, the Pool Calculator suggest that I add for TC +191g Chlorine, pH No Soda Ash, T/A + 3700g of Baking Soda, CH + 2717g Calcium Chloride, CYA +1400g Stabiliser.
My Borate target is advised to be 50ppm but I haven't a clue how to measure what, if any, is in the pool, can you offer any advice on that, also must I add Muriatic Acid which I believe to be Hydrochloric Acid? Also what is Calcium Chloride and Stabiliser?
I have been using the pool for about 5 years now and for the first 4 years had no problems in keeping the water clean and clear just using Chlorine and Soda Ash. The problem started last year after a lengthy period away from home, when I returned Algae had taken over and if you have had the time to review previous posts you will note many other problems experienced. My point about all this is that I am the only regular user of the pool and the water is a lot cleaner that the mud holes the locals swim and fish in, so is really necessary to get all these other chemicals when the water looks fine to me?
Thanks again for your help and advice
Regards
Mike

Borate Test strips http://tftestkits.net/Options-for-All-Test-Kits-c10/

All other questions can be answered here: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/recommended_pool_chemicals

And here: http://www.troublefreepool.com/so-you-want-to-add-borates-to-your-pool-why-and-how-t4921.html