I know JasonLion's tutorial stated he has a vinyl liner but I'm concerned about draining the water level 4" below the returns. I read some where on TFP this may not be ideal because it may cause damage to the liner by making it float. I know it doesn't seem to be an issue for most but can anyone entertain this idea for a moment?

Also on average I was just curious how many bottles of antifreeze people use for closing? I saw an online video tutorial where very little (less than 1 half gallon) was used. I have a 16x32 foot pool and the pad is ~12' away from the deep end and I have 4 return lines including the booster line for my polaris.

How far you can lower the water level depends both on the depth of the shallow end, you always want to leave at least one foot of the water in the shallow end, and the height of the ground water table. In almost all areas, the ground water table is quite low in the winter, though it can get much higher during the spring. As a general rule, lowering the water 18" is nearly always safe.

How much anti-freeze you need to use varies depending on how low the temperatures get. Colder temperatures require the use of more anti-freeze. The recommendations in the first post are conservative, ie they recommend using enough to just about the coldest temperatures anyone is likely to encounter.

Re: Lowering the level of the pool.

After reading many of the posts about levels I am still not sure what is best.
While lowering the level for closing I notice I am passing many "Milestones"
First I lower below the tile, then I pass the bottom of the skimmer. It's just
a few more inches to the bottom of the returns, ok one more inch to the bottom of
the vaccuum port. Hmmm 5 more inches to the bottom of the light niche.

In the spring after months of rain snow sleet and Ice melt the pool cover has water all the way
up to the skimmer. Yes I pump it off occasionally until the big freeze.

Am I wasting time and water lowering it to begin with?

Pool is in Michigan yup darn cold

I'm trying to close my pool by myself for the first time. 20x40 in ground vinyl liner, swg, sand filter.

I have been reading online and i am not 100% sure what to do yet!

Last winter the company who closed the pool drained water to below the returns (i have two), but by the time it was freezing, the water lever was all the way back up to the top of the pool. So do i really need to lower the water at all?

If i drain all the pipes and put in X amount of anti-freeze, shouldn't that suffice?

My plan was to:

1) Vacuum pool
2) Backwash filter
3) Drain SOME water (to below skimmer maybe)
4) Drain water from pump, filter, heat pump...by unscrewing drain plugs
5) Use shop-vac to blow water out return (until i see air bubbles), plug, then add anti-freeze
6) Do same for skimmer and bottom drain (although i'm not sure how to get anti-freeze in bottom drain yet)
7) Add winterizing chemicals as per instructions (poor and stir pretty much)

Is there something wrong with my plan?

Thanks!

MJCP, lowering at least a few inches below the tile and skimmer is very important and well worth doing. Beyond that, it gets vague. Lowering below the vacuum port and/or lights helps protect them from ice damage, but also requires more work and more water replacement later.

Acadian, yes, lowering the water level is a good idea, especially in Canada. You also want to pump out any fall rains that push the water level back up. Winterizing involves having several layers of protections, so that if something goes wrong in one area, another layer of protection takes over and prevents what could be very expensive damage. Any chemicals that you want to add should be added before lowering the water level, so you can use the main pump to mix them in. There isn't much worth adding, a little extra chlorine and perhaps some algaecide.

Thanks Jason,

The pool store had a winterize package that include something they call "winter shock" and "winter algaecide"...so i'm guessing i can add that before i shut off the pump.

I was wondering why the need to lower the water level?

Also, how should i add the anti-freeze to the bottom drain. I can use the shop-vac to blow out most of the water, and then close the valve to create an air pocket in the pipe. Any ideas how to get the anti-freeze in there without letting some water back in the pipe?

Thanks!

If you want to shock likewe do we use bleach, &it is a process rather than a one time dump in. Algaecide is one of the few items we get at the pool store, be sure it is 60% poly... ( do a search here for proper name)
Jason knows way more than me so go w him

I live in southern California and I know I don't really need to close my pool. This is only the 2nd year I've had a pool. Last year we got a few nights below freezing but mostly we stay around 30 degrees, not much lower than that, and of course we warm up between 55-75 during the day.

We think we've discovered a crack in my DE filter (it's an older one) so I'm starting to think that closing this year might be a good idea. Mostly because if this needs to be replaced, it would be nice to do it earlier in the year when I have fewer outlays in cash. Besides this, I have a broken eyeball return that needs to be extracted so I would like to drain the pool to below the returns since I was unable to do it with the normal water level.

I read through the closing information here and I'm wondering if I need to blow out the pipes etc and do all the closing as if I was up where it freezes. I currently have a solar cover on the pool, keeping the junk out, we are not swimming in the pool and the temp is 70 degrees (probably due to the solar cover since we have full sun and the temps are still in the 80s during the day, I'm guessing).

Any thoughts?

TIA,
Anne

grrltraveler, how through you need to be very much depends on what the weather actually does. If temperatures never fall below 30, you really don't need to be at all through. However, a couple of nights at 20 degrees and it will be well worth having done a through winterizing job. Without the pump to circulate water, the water in some spots in the plumbing can get below freezing when it is below freezing out, even when the bulk pool water is well above freezing.

I guess I don't know the temps exactly so I won't take any chances. thanks for the input.

Great advice from all.
I have just moved to Mobile Al. last year. I grew-up in Michigan and we always had a pool, above ground. So we used flotation pillows and a cover. I am a maintenance tech at an apartment complex with an 18k in ground gahnite pool. I plan to leave it open all year. Here is my question. As a boy growing up in Michigan we wanted to get more swimming time in before having to close our pool for the season, so we used a clear liquid additive that invisibly floated on top that enhanced the sun’s rays and raised the water temperature. Might this be something others have thought of in areas where it’s a toss-up of to cover or not to cover? Would this, maybe ever so slightly, raise the water temperature enough to keep it safe even should the temperature dip to extreme lows?
What are your thoughts?

soakingwet, welcome to TFP! Liquid solar covers are not usually very effective. They will raise the water temperature just a little, and could help in a marginal situation, but won't help enough to make much of a difference for most people.

I've read all the comments above on lowering the water levels. I'd like to lower my water level below the skimmers for winter, but above the returns. My new inground gunite pool has an 8 by 10 foot sun lounging area that is covered by only 7 inches of water when the pool is full. When I lower the level below the skimmers, this area will be dry, or covered by only an inch or so.

Am I risking damage to this surface by drying it up over winter? I'm in the northern portion of SC, and do want to winterize my pool but need to know if I am creating another problem by lowering the water level.

Bump

The sun shelf will be fine even without water on it as long as the plaster isn't completely brand new. The main risks to plaster without water are in the first month after it is applied and in the sun on a hot summer day in the summer, when it could get too hot.

I found TFP over the summer and it gave me the confidence to attempt to close my own pool this fall. We will see this wisdom of this next spring. I believe I have had a solid closing, but have a question about the water level and water tables.

As a new closer, I drained the pool ~20 inches - to just below the returns. This makes me pretty confident that I was able to blow them out well before plugging them. There has been some antifreeze added. I am not sure it distributed equally between the three returns.

My question: The water table in my yard is quite high and I worry about the pool being so low. Is there now any downside to refilling 10" or so of water into the pool?

Thanks,

Matthew

Refilling a bit should be fine. In Virginia you probably want to go up to at least an inch above the returns and not above several inches below the skimmer.

Where we live the weather is so if. It might be 70° one day then drop down to 40° the next. Today high is supposed to be in the upper 60s. I was going to close today but I think I may wait like Jason has suggested, until temps are consistently below 30. We did have a couple of nights that temps fell to about 29°. Do you guys think it would be OK to wait a little longer? Last year we waited until the 2nd week of Dec. before closing. When we opened it up in the spring, the water was crystal clear.

I agree firmly with waiting. Your climate and mine are very similar and my water temp is still too warm. Mid-December probably makes good sense.

Silly question maybe - Jason where is the "Opening an IGP" topic in pool school?